No.68295[View All]
Book discussion. Tell us what you're reading.
Previous threads:
>>64932>>60032>>54504 No.69913
>>69815>the underground man had a jobhe quit it and isolated as soon as he received a little inheritance
No.69914
The Underground Man is forty years old remembering stuff from his early 20s.
No.69919
>>68295Somehow finished The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath despite taking months of breaks between sessions. It has a interesting ending but i wish i were fully awake to and not pissed of while reading it.
Any recommendations that are similar to that book and the first chapters of the king in yellow? Really liked first chapter/story in particular of that book.
No.69922
> In many English classrooms across America, assignments to read full-length novels are becoming less common. Some teachers focus instead on selected passages — a concession to perceptions of shorter attention spans, pressure to prepare for standardized tests and a sense that short-form content will prepare students for the modern, digital world.https://www.ap.org/news-highlights/spotlights/2024/not-so-great-expectations-students-are-reading-fewer-books-in-english-class/I think this is a good thing, and I would have enjoyed English class more if it was about reading short things with a critical intensity. rather than reading long things as an endurance test. its just a timewaster. I'm a fan of Leo Straussian slow reading.
Don't get me wrong, I'm actually against abridging. Since I think authors going off topic is part of the beauty of language. So of the excerpt, you should read the full text.
But I think a slow, close, critical reading of a short text or excerpt or even a quote is better than long lazy distracted tired reading.
No.69936
>>69922I think is important to have a endurance to read full book instead of just taking part of it, if you raise people just reading on key passages instead of a full book you're bound to make people stupid
No.69937
>>69914>>69914Wasn't clear that he's not a mentally healthy person? He's very bitter, neurotic, narcissistic from the impression I had reading the book.
No.69940
>>69815>"muh human condition", "muh suffering and le feelings"Fantasy and SciFi don't have this?
The most famous fantasy book and the most famous scifi series are a both about this. In fact you'll be hard pressed to find a novel that doesn't revolve around these elements.
No.69941
>>69940It think the coat of paint of a fantasy world and such can make this idea more palatable for people, instead of creating a story about your typical XXI century human drama, it's more fun to read when it against a backdrop of like a galactic empire or a fantasy realm.
No.69942
Does anyone has a good reading guide on how to get into continental philosophy?
No.69968
>>69942>Does anyone has aNo.
No.70108
>>68295I'm currently reading Unmasking Anne Frank by Ikuo Suzuki, just started today after I got the book delivered. The first few pages have been quite satisfying, so I will continue. I intend to read Secrets of the Federal Reserve by Eustace Mullins afterwards, then the Culture of Critique trilogy by Kevin MacDonald. I still can't believe I found these books at a woke ass, liberal leftist ass bookstore. The types who stand against antisemitism. These fucks are so stupid and I'm perpetually reminded that the elites don't have full control over every aspect of society yet, the evil nature of normies keep everything naturally in alignment to their agendas on the surface.
After this, I'm thinking I'll really start reading some good programming books, not that I need them for studying, just to feed my brain. I have a list of more cryptocracy books which I intend to read one by one, they weren't written for nothing after all.
No.70158
I've finished reading matasaburo the wind, and alice in wonderland and looking through the glass And what she found there. it was good, Im reading night train in the milky way and its good
No.70159
finished reading train in the milkyway
No.70190
>>70140>>70141nice, I'm looking for more anti-feminist literature, and of course, you can't even Google that nowadays, it's all pro-feminism, and I don't know where to ask
No.70199
>>70198I can read along but I'm shy and retarded so I wouldn't have anything good to say.
No.70200
>>70199Thank you for the prompt response wizzy. Don't worry about having something 'good' to say, you can say whatever you want or nothing at all, though posting something, anything, makes the experience more fun I think.
Do you have a preference for any of the books I posted? Here's a quick sumary of each one:
Alas, Babylon
After a sudden global catastrophe, a small Florida town is cut off from the rest of the world and forced to survive on its own. The story follows ordinary people adapting to scarcity, responsibility, and the rebuilding of a fragile society.
Earth Abides
A devastating pandemic reshapes human civilization, leaving a lone survivor to wander a transformed America. The novel explores humanity’s place in nature and how cultures rise, change, and fade over time.
On the Beach
In the aftermath of a worldwide disaster, the last pockets of humanity wait out their final days in Australia. The novel focuses on dignity, routine, and human connection in the face of inevitable decline.
No.70201
>>70200I don't know about any of them. They all seem to be about the same subject anyway so whichever is fine. But just from your short description, Earth Abides sounds like it has a loner and thus more relatable protagonist.
No.70202
Allow me a course correction on the book selection, wiz. I read the first 30 or so pages of the three books I mentioned, and they all struck me as rather mediocre. Fine enough for casual reading, but if we’re going to read something together, I’d rather pick a very good book instead of an average one. A Canticle for Leibowitz happens to be the most highly regarded in the genre.
If you have no objections, I’d like to go with it. It’s also slightly shorter, with shorter chapters that you can read in a single sitting, which makes it perfect for what we’re doing here. I’d like to start on Monday the 22nd, giving the weekend for more people to see this post and possibly join in.
Every day I’ll write a short post about the chapter we’re meant to read that day, and you’re welcome to post your impressions as well. Maybe some discussion will come out of it. It should take us approximately a month to get through the book. The chapters average about 11 pages, which you can probably read in 15 to 25 minutes.
For wizzas who complain about brain fog or lack of concentration, I think this would be a good exercise, so don’t miss the opportunity to join us. You can probably reallocate 20 minutes of doomscrolling to this instead.
As for getting the book itself, I’ll be using the digital library system at archive.org. You need a free account. Registration only requires an email, username, and password. You are free to use whatever method you prefer. As long as you have access to the book, that’s all that matters.
You can find several editions available to borrow here:
https://archive.org/search?query=A+Canticle+for+Leibowitz&and%5B%5D=mediatype%3A%22texts%22I’ll be using this one, simply because I like the formatting better:
https://archive.org/details/canticleforleibo0000unse_d5n4/mode/2upPic related, our schedule.
No.70207
Chapter 1
"Stay back there now!" he croaked. "Just keep your distance, sport. I've got nothing you're after—unless it's the cheese, and you can have that. If it's meat you want, I'm nothing but gristle, but I'll fight to keep it. Back now! Back!"Well, I liked it a lot. The broad strokes used to describe this world at the beginning are very effective, giving enough detail while still leaving plenty to the imagination. It implies the horrors of the “post-Deluge” nicely, too, just by the characters' behavior. I’m very fond of deserts, and we’re certainly not lacking them here. The ending of the chapter was pretty good as well. Punchy. Let’s see what chapter 2 brings us tomorrow.
The first chapter is the second longest in the book. If you manage to get through this one, the rest will be a breeze. It'll only get easier to read a chapter a day for those struggling with focus.There’s only one chapter longer than this in the entire book, and it comes near the end.
Of course, anyone is welcome to join and post your impressions, it'll be fun.
>>70199Are you still there wiz?
No.70209
>>70207Yeah still here. Just finished reading the first chapter. Not much is revealed in the first chapter but we saw bits of worldbuilding here and there and it looks promising. Francis' religion sounded like a perversion of Christianity where the religion has been adopted to revolve around one Beatus Leibowitz who suffered from a nuclear fallout 600 years ago but he also got "exorcized" from it? For some reason, that reminded me of Do Android Dream of Electric Sheep where there is also a strange sci-fi religion revolving around a martyr figure whom struggles you can witness through a video-like thing? I forgot. Spoiler for that book, the martyr figure turns out to be a fraud who filmed his martyrdom in a studio but that doesn't matter because what matters is believing in the idea and the faith in him alone can gives hope to millions of people in a dystopian future. What did Leibowitz do to be able to replace Jesus Christ's position and what idea does he represents? Let's hope we can keep this book club going long enough to find out.
No.70210
i recently picked Machiavelli's The Prince recently after 3 years of starting the first chapter but i will be finishing it soon
No.70211
I also just finished reading chapter 1. Enjoyable writing style. Not much to say. More question than answers in this chapter.
I find it odd that Brother Francis found the pilgrim's statement of "Adonai Elohim, King of All, who maketh bread to spring forth from the earth" a strange pretension claiming to not know of a monarch of such a name. Adonai Elohim is apparently hebrew for Lord God. The symbols on the rock look like hebrew to me as well. What does this say about our pilgrim?
No.70212
>>70211It's probably lost knowledge. Literacy is considered a rarity. When Francis writes, he can only wrote single, disjointed religious terms instead of full sentences. He thought fallout is the name of a demon and that rebar in concrete is mysterious materials that you harvest. Within the 600 years after everything on earth gets wiped off in a nuclear war not all knowledge is preserved. It's likely not Christianity that they're following too but new religion that adopt its practices. I think they're larpers of Christian monkhood like how in the game Fallout:New Vegas, Caesar's legion larps as Romans from Caesar's own limited understanding of Rome in the surviving history book he had access to.
No.70214
>>70212I guess I got the sense that he was relatively learned, considering he could read the latin script, something not common in the pre-duluge Utah of all places, in the Libellus Leibowitz as well as the anceint english script on the fallout shelter sign. There's so much odd stuff in this chapter to me. Why is the Libellus Leibowitz written in latin? It's implied Leibowtiz may not have written the little book, but, still, why latin? A corrupted Catholicism? Still, someone would have to intentionally write that book in latin. Why does Francis understand the pilgrim's reference to scripture when he says, "I've not offered to turn these stones into bread for you yet, have I?" A reference to Satan's temptation of Christ. Does Francis know Christ? He mentions visualizing the Holy Trinity earlier where he refers to Leibowitz as the blessed martyr and can't help but confuse the face of God with the Lord Abbot. I think
>>70209 is right that Leibowitz replaces Christ in this religion, but… why? Francis suggests a Prior Cheroki might be able to translate the symbols…we'll see if he can or not.
Anyway, see where I'm getting at? Francis seems to know quite a bit, but hebrew is completely unknown to him? I wonder if the Lord Abbot, the founder, or whoever is the govering body of this faith variant is intentionally concealing the truth from practitioners. Too early to guess.
No.70215
>>70210I bought it but never read it, maybe one day haha
No.70216
2"The gold-capped tooth kept winking and glittering at the corner of his eye while Brother Francis heaved and strained at the desk drawers. The drawers refused to budge. He gave the desk a final kick and turned to glare impatiently at the skull: Why don't you grin at something else for a change?"The Western imagination has a deep sense for the idea of unearthing lost civilizations, and sometimes civilizations more advanced than the ones making the discovery. This is probably due to the Early Renaissance and men like Petrarch, Biondo, and Bracciolini, who founded archaeology by unearthing Latin texts, Roman artifacts and buildings during the 13th century. That stuff made its way to popular imagination big time and perhaps the fascination with decadence and fall of civilizations also come from that, who knows. In this chapter, we get those same sentiments of discovery and wonder, but in this case we’re the lost civilization the character is unearthing. This switch in perspective makes the whole thing very interesting.
>>70209Yeah I quite like the idea of Christianity changing so much over the centuries to the point this stuff happens. I think this is something that kinda happened to Buddhism to a degree, where Gautama became a minor figure in his own religion with the Pure Land and stuff like that once Buddhism spread towards the East and the centuries went on. We'll see how it goes.
>>70211Christianity changed so much apparently that such things now happen. He's training to be a monk or is a monk already, one would think if that knowledge was still part of the religion he would at least heard about it. He seems like a very religious guy.
No.70217
>>70216Chapter 2 comments
Alright so I was wrong. It looked like Leibowitz was a mere Saint/Beatus, the Catholic church survived in the form of New Rome. Holy Virgin and Blessed Mother were mentioned which implies the existence of Christ. Now I am confused as to what this weird form of Catholicism is supposed to be.
The order preoccupation with collecting pre-apocalypse books and papers immediately reminds me of the Brotherhood of Steel from the Fallout series while their treatment of technology and knowledge as holy reminds me the Adeptus Mechanicus from Warhammer 40,000. Probably an inspiration for both series.
Gotta read on to know more. There is a lot more reference to Christianity and use of latin than I expected. I am going to miss a lot of allusions since I am uneducated when it comes to Christianity and latin. There was a whole paragraph near the chapter end about people in the Vatican arguing theology that I just ignored.
No.70218
3"Fingo was undoubtedly the ugliest man alive, and when he laughed, the vast display of pink gums and huge teeth of assorted colors added little in his charm; he was a sport, but the sport could scarcely be called monstrous; it was a rather common hereditary pattern in the Minnesota country from whence he came; it produced baldness and a very uneven distribution of melanin, so that the gangling monk's hide was a patchwork of beef-liver and chocolate splashes on an albino background."Confession time and misunderstandings galore for Francis and Father Cheroki. I quite enjoyed Fingo. The fact that he manages to be accepted by the community through sheer merriment despite his ugliness is very amusing to me. I was also amused by his physical description. Welp, now people in the upper echelons of the Church are becoming aware of Francis’s discovery, we will see where it goes.
>>70217I came into this book pretty much blind. I picked it because it is considered a science fiction classic, so I knew I would not be wasting people’s time with it. I also knew it has been a considerable influence on Fallout and other video games, so I figured the chances of people being interested in reading it with me would be higher. lol Gaming is popular, after all!
No.70220
>>70218Short chapter this time. Nothing to say although the Catholic terms about Host and whatnot still confuse me.
No.70221
>>70220For sure! I'm not too concerned about it though because I think it's weird on purpose.
No.70222
4
"In his own mind, there was no neat straight line separating the Natural from the Supernatural order, but rather, an intermediate twilight zone. There were things that were clearly natural, and there were Things that were clearly supernatural, but between these extremes was a region of confusion (his own)—the preternatural—where things made of mere earth, air, fire, or water tended to behave disturbingly like Things. For Brother Francis, this region included whatever he could see but not understand."
I enjoyed this chapter quite a lot. Abbot Arko’s interrogation is both hilarious and profound. The idea of a twilight zone between the natural and the supernatural, and how this zone plays on one’s own ignorance, creating a gap where strange things happen that you can’t fully analyze or grasp, is really interesting. I think this is how religion works, to a certain degree.
No.70223
>>70222I like the twilight zone idea too. Must be how all pre-modern people see the world. It sounds like it can enrich and deepen someone's experience of life as long as it doesn't go too far into the realm of delusions or psychosis. I enjoy the character interactions too. Arkos' authoritative political maneuvering and Francis sincere simpleness make a good dynamic. It's almost like a comedic skit.
No.70226
5"The continent was lightly settled. He thought of the wall-map in the abbey's library, and of the sparse distribution of the crosshatched areas, which were regions—if not of civilization—then of civil order, where some form of lawful sovereignty, transcending the tribal, held sway. The rest of the continent was populated, very thinly, by the people of the forest and the plain, who were, for the most part, not savages, but simple clanfolk loosely organized into small communities here and there, who lived by hunting, gathering, and primitive agriculture, whose birth rate was barely high enough (discounting monster-births and sports) to sustain the population."This chapter was mostly world-building, specifically some Church traditions in this post-deluge age. That wiz that was glancing over the more Churchy bits is probably not going to enjoy this chapter very much. But we get to know more about this world as well, and what's going on in the continent.
>>70223I think that if you replace supernatural with unknown, that’s generally how we still function as secular individuals. Maybe the supernatural is out of vogue in post-modern, industrialized societies, but the fringes of knowledge and the familiar are still where all the cool stuff happens.
No.70229
>>70226I like this one actually because I like the world building. I did find the Lent celebration confusing but I get the gist from googling the terms. The ornithologist cat metaphor was interesting too and applicable to a lot of chan users.
Most relatable to me personally is Francis talking about not being able to return to an illiterate shepherd life after learning scholarly knowledge in the abbey that has no demand outside of it. If after spending the early age of my life studying intellectual subjects like literature, mathematics, science, history and such, and then leaving the ivory tower my only choice of work is to mindlessly slave at an assembly line or sell real estate to people I'd rather die fighting nomads in the Northwest too.
No.70234
6In all parts of the world men fled from one place to other places, and there was a confusion of tongues. Much wrath was kindled against the princes and the servants of the princes and against the magi who had devised the weapons. Years passed, and yet the Earth was not cleansed. So it was clearly recorded in the Memorabilia.In the previous chapter, we had a description of the world as it is; in this one, we get the history of how it came to be that way. Not much actual history, but rather a kind of myth, a simplification of the facts, pun intended. It reminds me of that Lord of the Rings quote: 'History became legend. Legend became myth.' It echoes many things in real history, but the parallel that came to mind immediately was the Chinese Cultural Revolution, when many members of the nation’s intelligentsia were killed. Also, the idea of booklegging is lovely.
>>70229I was wondering if you were going to like it, good to know you did. Francis is becoming a punching bag in this story, we'll where it goes.
No.70236
>>70234Scary how ignorant and anti-intellectual the average person can be. Also Francis could have avoided all his problems if he had just lie but considering the theme of the chapter, the author likely considered sabotaging your well-being to tell the truth a virtue. Maybe it's worth it if the truth is really important to you but Francis isn't even sure himself if the old man was the saint or not.
No.70240
7"Well keep at it, Brother! How clever they must have been, those ancients—to know how to untwist nothing. Keep at it, and you may learn how. Then we'd have the "electron" in our midst, wouldn't we? Whatever would we do with it? Put it on the altar in the chapel?"This is my favorite chapter so far. Francis is finally promoted, the nice lad, and the idea of modern culture and science becoming forgotten knowledge and incomprehensible relics is fully expressed. In a way it's like a medieval man traveled to the future and we get his understanding of the times, pretty good. Abbot Arkos's sagacity is also on full display, all very interesting and fascinating.
>>70236You were right about Arkos political maneuvering, in this chapter we get to see more of it. Yeah Francis had it hard but it looks like his life is improving now.
No.70241
>>70240The question about the blueprints piqued my curiosity so I looked it up at learn about cyanotype. Interesting. Copy illumination is also another interesting topic. It sounds bewildering to us modern men with plenty of entertainment why someone would give themselves more work but when you have nothing to do but copy manuscript all day you might as well inject some amount of human spirit into your art by drawing beautiful things. Electrons being a "Negative Twist of Nothingness" is incomprehensible to me. There is a Physics Stack Exchange thread on it and they also think it doesn't reflect any understanding in modern physics and is only tangentially related to some obsolete interpretation. Untwisted nothingness is a funny phrase to thing about.
Also we still have 23 chapters to go. If each chapters produce two comments that's 46 more posts on the general reading thread. Would you like to make a separate thread? I mean it could make the reading thread unwelcome to other wizards who want to talk about other books.
No.70247
8"Francis felt fright when he first tapped at Aguerra's door, but he saw quickly that the fright was unfounded. The prothonotary was a suave and diplomatic elder who seemed keenly interested in the small monk's life."The Dominicans have finally arrived to check the vault. Life goes on as usual in the monastery. Here we have several little scenes stitched together depicting domestic life in the monastery. Very nice and soothing.
>>70241I don't want to kill a hob thread just for this, it'll just be dead weight when we're done with it in a few weeks. Besides, most of the reviews you see in this thread are mine, there's like 2 or 3 other dudes in here, I don't think we're hurting the pacing of the thread. That's my opinion, anyway. I like to have the reading thread trending at /all/, maybe more people will feel like talking about the books they're reading (they won't).
No.70248
>>70247All right then. Btw I am the only person who have been replying to your daily reports. There is at least one other wiz who joined discussion in the first day but every posts after that has only been us from two. Maybe they're lurking but even if they missed a few days I highly welcome anybody to rejoin or join our book club in the middle. The chapters are short and there hasn't been much to discuss anyway.
No.70253
9"Brother Jeris developed ambitions of building a printing press, but Arkos quashed the plan when he heard of it. There was neither sufficient paper nor proper ink available, nor any demand for inexpensive books in a world smug in its illiteracy. The copyroom continued with pot and quill."And so the process is concluded and Leibowitz is canonized at last. Seems like we'll be visiting New Rome soon.
We're reading A Canticle for Leibowitz.
You can find several editions available to borrow here:
https://archive.org/search?query=A+Canticle+for+Leibowitz&and%5B%5D=mediatype%3A%22texts%22I’ll be using this one, simply because I like the formatting better:
https://archive.org/details/canticleforleibo0000unse_d5n4/mode/2up>>70248I really appreciate you sticking around, wiz. Wizchan is dead, imageboards are mostly dead and the internet I hear is dying, so it's significant we're keeping this small thing here going for the duration of the book. I suppose I should be posting the link to the book, too, so I'll do that from now on.
No.70254
>>70253Guess we'll get to see more of the world outside of the abbey, which means good old worldbuilding. I wonder if the decision to not develop a printing press is wise. Maybe there isn't enough pulp to make paper since it was mentioned that wood is scarce and ink expensive. If someone wants to develop this world, the first order of action would probably be to conquer whole swathe of lands first and ensure safety and stability of trade and travel so talent and resource can be gathered in one place.
No.70257
10"The trip to New Rome would require at least three months, perhaps longer, the time depending to some extent on the distance which Francis could cover before the inevitable band of robbers relieved him of his ass. He would be traveling alone and unarmed, carrying only his bindlestiff and begging bowl in addition to the relic and its illuminated replica."Alright, that’s completely idiotic. You know for a fact you’ll get robbed, and still you send one flimsy guy with not just a piece of art worthy of being a gift to the Pope, but also the irreplaceable, original relic that inspired it?! Ridiculous! I would even call this a plot hole. I can’t conceive of the monks being this stupid. What do you think, wiz? I have no explanation for this behavior.
We're reading A Canticle for Leibowitz.
You can find several editions available to borrow here:
https://archive.org/search?query=A+Canticle+for+Leibowitz&and%5B%5D=mediatype%3A%22texts%22I’ll be using this one, simply because I like the formatting better:
https://archive.org/details/canticleforleibo0000unse_d5n4/mode/2up>>70254Well, apparently the monks are too dense to think about such things. After what they pulled in this chapter, I can't speak for their intelligence.
No.70258
>>70257Yeah that was a weird thing to do. I can't predict how safe travelling would evolve in a lawless world but certainly nobody would entrust something so important to a lone unarmed guy. They could have travel in large groups with weapons or hitch a ride with a caravan travelling the same direction. Hell Francis mentioned in earlier chapters that he is good with a bow and it's common for the Christians of that world to assemble in armies.
No.70262
11The Pontiff moved on, speaking to each pilgrim in the line, and when it was over: the solemn benediction. The audience had ended.And so it ends the first part of the novel. Gotta tell you, as soon as Francis got the money, I knew what was coming to him. I enjoyed the bulk of the chapter that narrates the ecclesiastical procedures and everything that Francis saw, but didn't enjoy the ending for our hero. It felt like the monks got dumbed down a lot in the last two chapters.
We're reading A Canticle for Leibowitz.
You can find several editions available to borrow here:
https://archive.org/search?query=A+Canticle+for+Leibowitz&and%5B%5D=mediatype%3A%22texts%22I’ll be using this one, simply because I like the formatting better:
https://archive.org/details/canticleforleibo0000unse_d5n4/mode/2up>>70258They never heard of convoys, caravans, nothing. If they were an isolated monastery without any awareness of the outside, then I would kind of get it, but they get visitors and pilgrims with some regularity, it seems, so there's really no excuse I can think of.