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File: 1603996828424.png (4.14 KB, 259x194, 259:194, lain.png) ImgOps iqdb


Maybe this belongs more on /hob/ and if the mods agree I would hold no ill will for them for moving or deleting it but I recently got around to watching Serial Experiments Lain and wanted to find some other wizzards with good reccomendations for /dep/ anime. The ones of course given are succubi last tour and Lain. I would personally not count Watamote as it seems quite shallow and everything turns out fine in the end and whatnot. So what are some other anime, manga or light novels dealing with actual depression or schizophrenia and not in the mainstream boohoo am so sad way.


Ping Pong: The Animation had some depressing moments.


Texhnolyze is an obvious one


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Angel's Egg is quite an experience.


I also want to see anime like what you describe but that kind of anime is extremely rare. The one I do know of with at least a little bit of a believable depression is Haibane Renmei, but it's not exactly what you're looking for. It's also made by Yoshitoshi ABe, the same guy that made SELain and Texhnolyze.


thanks, ill be sure to check it out. I havent seen that one


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Alien 9


I read Ningen Shikkaku a while back and I just watched the anime at your recommendation.
I suppose it was OK for being four episodes, but if I didn't know what was supposed to be happening from reading the novel it would be shit.


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Anime is rather limited in its scope, manga has much more variety in general. I suppose most of the obvious picks have been said here for anime, not that any of them really deal with depression. I'll list off the ones that seem sort of related, at least that I can think of anyways.

Aka no Hana
Grave of the Fireflies
Haibane Renmei
Kino no Tabi
Welcome to NHK

Really though I suggest just going to manga for depression related stories, anime costs too much to produce; its forced to pander to pathetic otaku and normalfags. See: Shinkai movies, shounenshit, CGDCT, isekai, meme shows, and all other related trash designed to make profit.


ashita no joe 1-2
patlabor 2-3


Thanks anon. I really agree about manga being a better medium. It really is a shame that shows that could be more interesting are forced to being more appealing in order to get enough money to warrant their production but I guess that's the tradeoff for having to put in less effort than manga or reading. If you've got some good recommendations I'd gladly read them


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I admit I haven't even scratched the surface of the untold swaths of manga out there, but I'll just throw what I know.

There is a lot more to pick from, but also a lot of poor quality shiet. Manga also still falls for the normalfag "must have a happy ending and/or overcome his bad state" much of the time, it's either that or as I said its downfall is poor quality writing. Strongest Man Kurosawa (Kaiji/Akagi author) and Kokou no Hito are my top two picks for sure, both are very well written and the art in both have distinct styles worth looking at. SMK is fantastic and really shows off what it's like for a loser of society at mid life. While KNH shows what it's like to be a depressed outcast who doesn't fit in.

There is also darker stuff like Aka no Hana, Himizu, Holyland, Ningen Shikkaku, Punpun. Lighter stuff like almost anything else by Asano Inio, 3-Gatsu no Lion and some other stuff I can't remember. There


hey, anon
i want to thank you for the manga recommendations you posted
it so happens that i have read through most of them in prior years, but Ningen Shikkaku was a new discovery for me. i've binged through it just today, and feel like i'll be re-reading it slowly over the coming days to properly take it in, though there isn't much in the story that i can relate to directly

…this post doesn't really have much point to it, but for some reason i really wanted to tell you that i appreciated your short recommendation list, so here it is.


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Ningen Shikkaku was great to read for the decent into pure madness, the absurdity of life, the strangeness of other people and your own interactions with them. It also has great cap worthy panels and doesn't embrace normalfag forced-happiness. For instance you can obviously tell at the end of Kokou no Hito that Mori was suppose to die on K2, but the author bowed down to the normalfags instead. Still I'm surprised you had read Himizu already, usually people don't know that one. However I've got another one you probably haven't read, Nande Ikiteru ka Wakaranai Hito Izumi Sumi 25-sai. Its a short manga and the beginning of it is perfection. Still falls for the forced normalfag story, but what can you say its rare to find one without that.

If you have any recommendations yourself let me know, I know far more anime than manga and still need to read more.


meant to reply to >>34737


ah, i can't truthfully say that i have an arsenal of /dep/ manga recommendations myself, most of what i read comes from other people's recommendations rather than dumspter dives and thus tends to be the more popular/normie-fied ones
i wouldn't think of recommending SMK, for example, as in my eyes it's a comedy manga mocking Kurosawa's life issues and giving him an exaggerated incompetent character moreso than creating a mature, yet still troubled mind for him and sympathizing (especially the time-skip sequel), but i can maybe do a couple well-known ones that might hit the spot

"Again!!" has an interesting premise and a few arcs exploring the characters' insecurities and struggles which i personally empathized with
"Jumyou wo Kaitotte Moratta. Ichinen ni Tsuki, Ichimanen de" has a great premise for strong feels, though it is a story of magical recovery rather than despair-filled descent it still explores them somewhat well

i'll check out Nande Ikiteru ka Wakaranai Hito Izumi Sumi 25-sai within the next few days too, thanks for the recommendation again! if i can remember anything else i'll post more, there's definitely at least one more manga whose name has slipped my mind at the moment


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You will probably enjoy REAL OP. This series shows the struggles disabled people have to face everyday and it also portrays the depressing situations the characters find themselves in.


SMK does have a-lot of comedic elements, but at the heart of it is a mid life man who truly is pathetic. After all the years gone by he finally looks back and realized he never truly attempted anything at all. I could relate the Kurosawa's monologues of fear, his own doubt, his regrets, his failure every step of the way, him being forced to acknowledge reality, his hatred of himself, there is so much to that character. It's rare to find authors who let their characters be as dark as Kurosawa is, not edgy dark or sad for the sake of being sad, but a true darkness after introspection of himself. Which is why there is so much comedy in SMK, Kurosawa is truly a depressing character. The author does a similar-ish thing with Kaiji, except Kaiji is more focused on human beings tendancy for risk aversion and hierarchy.

>Jumyou wo Kaitotte Moratta. Ichinen ni Tsuki, Ichimanen de

Ah yes I have this on my plan to read list, guess I should read it then. When I finish I'll let you know what I think.


as someone who loves martial art holyland is great


>Strongest Man Kurosawa (Kaiji/Akagi author) and Kokou no Hito

Pretty good choices. Strongest Man Kurosawa is one the best depictions of hopelessness in the medium. It doesn't become nor the
insufferable edgy emo like Punpun nor Kurosawa is the shy but cute succubus struggling at school that you would see in a mainstream movie. He's just a normal but unlikable dude (one of the most realistic parts of the manga, who would feel pity for a grown ass man? you're alone) being fucked by life.


Texhnolyze is a really good pick when it comes to depressing anime.


I finished Jumyou wo Kaitotte Moratta, it was very well done I must admit. Reminded me of Welcome to the NHK in a way. Your assessment that it is a story of magical recovery, rather than despair filled decent are very true; which is where it differs heavily from NHK .

SMK is just legendary stuff, it's a shame manga rarely touches upon mid life men in general. It is as you said "who would feel pity for a grown ass man?", and so too who would care about a grown man suffering in a story? Older single and unlikable men are so hated in general that they can't even make the cut for stories. At best they get minor roles, or as a comedic prop.
>insufferable edgy emo like Punpun
Any sort of edge isn't always a bad thing, I still find Punpun an enjoyable read and not as edgy as one might think. Real over the top edginess is Nijigahara Holograph (same author as Punpun) where it seems like every single character was either molested as a child, murdered, suicided, a murderer, raped, or some other horrific thing.


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finished reading Kokou no Hito today

strong feels on that one, for sure - feels like he was initially meant to die on K2, and then sometime after the all-mountain northern alps traversal the author changed his mind
though i think the manga definitely dropped the ball by giving him a cute wife and the "i'm definitely gonna return to my wife and kid!" motivation to survive K2, the character not caring for anything in his life and being abused for it was pretty well-presented

i'll move on to the other recommendation now


Yea, certainly after he gets a wife it isn't as great, still good but loses a bit of it's edge. I think if he had died on K2 it would have redeemed that aspect much more, but normalfag pressure is too great as I said. Still the beginning and all the way up to basically chapter 110 is perfection, if there wasn't the wife and child thing afterward it would have been the peak depwiz story honestly.

I was planning on reading "Again!!" but I can't stand ongoing stories. Nothing worse than having to wait literal years to finish a story (assuming the manga writer even wants to end it).


Again!! has been finished a while ago, 12 volumes in total
might be that your source doesn't have the full thing, maybe..?


Ah your right, I'll check it out then. Yea the site I was on said it was "ongoing".


I've turned to manga for a lot of /dep/ related themes. It's becoming more and more of a niche genre is the average anime watcher is no longer a massive loser. It looks like NHK and Kurosawa have already been listed. Kurosawa is my favorite. Here the one's that I have read so far:

Arigatou - I would recommend just finding a list of manga published by this mangaka and reading all of them

Himizu - I think this one was already mentioned here too

Homunculus - It's about a homeless mentally ill guy who volunteers in a psychological experiment. I could relate to it since I used to live out of a vehicle for a while too.

Ressentiment - A fat neckbeard working a dead end factory job discovers VR and tries getting a waifu. It's a lot more than just a tfw no gf manga.

Tsumi to Batsu: A Falsified Romance - Socially awkward anxious guy who is bitter and miserable with his life decides to plan out a murder and kill someone who assumes that no one will miss, only for it to completely backfire. A good cautionary tale for any wizards on here who fantasize about homicide.

Wanitokagegisu - Probably my favorite one that I can relate to the most. It's about a guy in his late 20s or 30s that works as a night shift security guard and all sorts of antics happen.

Many of these have romantic themes so before anyone bites my head off for not recommending truwiz media, I just thought I'd let you know now.


Ashita no Joe helped me when I was in a bad place. Similar to when he and his alcoholic coach were squatting under a bridge and trainning, I was squatting in someone's unfinished basement and an unemployed alcoholic when I first discovered both the anime and manga.


Same here. I was at my lowest 5 years ago watching Joe and it was very comforting. Haven't really watched anime since then. It's nice to go back to the first episode from time to time.
It's depressing that anime just faded into nothingness compared to the heights that they've reached in the 80s


>Haibane Renmei
10/10 amazing show.
Shame anime like this wont get made now due to zoomers being too retarded.
The manga is far better than the novel.
The novel is far overrated but maybe I am biased because my life is so bad that I did care for Dazais in the book.
Read the novel it is better than the anime and manga. The story is way different so watching the movie and reading the manga wont spoil it.
Himizu is a great manga about mental issues and not caring about society.

>Welcome to NHK


As I've reached my early 30s I feel more and more like Kurosawa every day. I can sit here and blame society all I want for my failures, but the cold reality is that I didn't put in enough effort to be someone so now I'm here.


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Present time, present day.


>Ilya Kushniwhatever's traced drawing


seems like foreigners who achieve to make it in japan are hated by their peers, it's the same with game freak designer james turner who's accused to be the reason of pokémon's decline.
it's pure jealousy. i swear if it wasn't known kushinov was russian, everyone would be sucking his dick or at least wouldn't say he isn't a legitimate artist.
i personnaly don't like his art that much but it angers me seeing people like him being insulted while worse art are being praised and being found excuses only because they were made by a japanese. those are the same cucks who make "western vs asian wimin" tier threads, as if it wasn't pathetic enough to praise wimns on the internet, they praise and defend the one of another country (ultimate cuckoldry). fuck dick suckers defenders of japan, i wish anime will decline, i'm tired of seeing those soulless bugs having the monopole on vusual art.


I think people don't like that art style because mixing western style art with anime doesn't create anime, it doesn't create western art, and it doesn't even create a new genre. It creates alien hominid looking creatures without the benefit of western style and without the stylization of Japanese anime. It's a nasty frankenstein's art.


He 1-to-1 traces Japanese illustrations
He doesn't even read, watch, or engage with the community of many of the series he traces from; if it's trending, he traces it and that's it
He actively puts down Japanese artists
He encourages Western left-wing influences to "shape" the current face of Japanese culture fan groups
He profits big off of tracing other artist's work

His traces all share the same uninspired tumblr meme style
He's rude
He's a communist tranny

>i wish anime will decline

Start by ceasing to post on the Anime board


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Ask Lain-chan


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Betsuni. Nandemo nai.


What the fuck?


I liked this.


Good recs, anon. Enjoyed Ressentiment a lot over the past week, moving on to the other stuff now.


Lain has been forever ruined for me, since it's pretty much cowboy bebop for tumblrites, aka the type of anime where after you're done watching it, you're quoting the show for months and using art of the MC as your avatar until you find another bandwagon show to hop on. Except people like .jpg related don't even understand the fucking message of the show: the internet and the real world should never mesh together, people that use social media and treat all hearsay online as fact, are nothing but a plague of mindless zombies


so it was on this board and not dep. couldnt remember when i was shitfaced so thanks for the bump.
anyway why care if other fans of something you like are faggots? they had nothing to do with the creation of that thing so they should be irrelevant for your own enjoyment.


Because the memes are too overbearing. You can't find a single forum, board or comment section discussing the damn thing without the LOVE LAIN meme and PRESENT DAY. It's like that stupid "get in the robot shinji you fucking pussy!!!! xDDddDD" shit. Fuck it. There are better arthouse films out there that do the same thing Lain does. That's pretty much what Lain should've been anyway. It could've been more atmospheric and well written if it were a 2 hour long movie instead of a short TV series.


i usually just tune out fanbases. only place i look for discussion about these sorts of things are on imageboards, and its not exactly perfect normgroid repellent either, but you can get a sense that some anons really appreciate the conversation topic and arent just treating what you like as a fashion trend.
people always beat jokes to death. everyone wants their turn to say the line. its an easy substitute for being funny on their own. i cant even talk down about it because i said the present day joke one time, so im probably the exact kind of person youre talking about and maybe thats why i dont see it the same way. i think its good for things i like to become popular regardless of the cancer it inevitably attracts since it can be financially beneficial to the creators, even if it leads them to lose artistic integrity and to my interest waning. definitely not the first time ive heard someone with the same sentiment as you so not trying to say youre wrong. just rambling.
i really wanted to find this thread last night to find something that has similar magic as lain. the only recommendation i could remember was texhnolyze. about 3 episodes in and its very strange.


This manga is several trips merged into one. The whole "You only see(hallucinate) that which you know" thing is taken to ridiculous extremes, and it's funny to me that the MC starts seeing himself everywhere in the end.
It feels like there are several ideas and threads that got left hanging during the course of the manga, but it was enjoyable and relatable in ways that aren't commonly pictured, presented, or talked about.
I will be moving on to Wanitokagegisu now, because I want to ask: Tsumi to Batsu: A Falsified Romance sounds an awful lot like 'Crime And Punishment". Is it a direct adaptation, or is there originality in there?


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I never "got" Cowboy Bebop. I prefered Outlaw Star.


Done with Wanitokagegisu, and also with Ressentiment.

Wanitokagegisu's author really knows how to draw and write people ugly. Every character is out for their own personal egotistical goals, every character is dysfunctional and inconsiderate, and every character who isn't (just the employers, pretty much) is only a mention at most. What a ride, man. Tomioka being the way he is when he tries to crawl out of the hole he's in is perfectly justified, and it's also plain to see how he would end up in there in the first place when surrounded with people like that.

Ressentiment is fantastic. Sakamoto being fat, ugly, balding, pathetic, and incompetent feels like it's played for laughs at times, but it's a very sobering image nonetheless. The way reality behind the romantic virtual world is presented as invariably gross and pathetic is a commentary on escapism, but it also reminds me that even the smaller niceties of people treating each other decently are done with full realization of the ugliness hiding behind it all.
I might be misinterpreting whether the manga intended to point that much out, but the real-life people in the simulation must clearly be aware of all of it, so…
The ending made me cry. Sakamoto ending up inheriting the shop, stuck unchanged but now even more alone, with the portraits of his parents and the friend (deceased, I presume) hanging behind the counter, haunted by ghosts of the past even more than a decade later… It hits close to heart.

Good-ass thread.


Many of the anime I watched as a child are /dep/ anime because the youth talk about it like they are discovering the ruins of an ancient civilization and it makes me feel very old.

Tenchi Muyo is now approximately as old as Urusei Yatsura was in 2011.


What's there to "get"?


>Tenchi Muyo is now approximately as old as Urusei Yatsura was in 2011.
Fuck me I remember when the Toonami dub was new and airing in the early 2000s like it was yesterday.


It's amazing how most millennial anime is lost media to zoomers. Even the stuff that aired on TV. Tenchi Muyo is as old as Scooby Doo was when I was ten. Except Scooby Doo was still relevant and could be viewed on television at that time. Ten year olds look at early-90's anime in the same way that I used look at early-70's Hanna Barberra. The stuff you might have had the chance to watch at Grandma's house because she had the Boomerang channel. It's probably a poor analogy because most older anime does not exist on regular TV in any form.


>It's probably a poor analogy because most older anime does not exist on regular TV in any form
Tell that to Spaniards.


Well that's all well and good for them.


Lain is just a meme show, I thought it waa boring.


Just because you personally don't like something doesn't mean it's a meme.


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It was already mentioned a few times further up but I really liked Himizu, read it a few weeks ago. The MC isn't a wizard but he comes from an extremely dysfunctional and poor family and suffers from an extreme obsession and maybe anhedonia. The first volume is kind of a black comedy that shifts focus around to a bunch of characters but the other volumes are much more focused and dark. And I don't want to completely spoil it, but it doesn't have a cop-out ending like a lot of depressing manga have.

Also I guess it had quite a bit of influence on Asano Inio (author of PunPun) and was well liked by some other artists as well



MC of Himizu is wizardly except for not being a virgin but he does not seem to show an interest in succubi.
The story is worth reading multiple times it is very nihilist.


Thanks wizzies, I’ll check it out right now. I have to get up and wageslave at 7 but Ive got an hour or so of dead time in bed. I’ll report back later with thoughts and opinions


Share your thoughts it takes some time to come into its own but is not long and is very much worth reading in my opinion.
We Did It is another manga like punpun


I’ll be going to bed now so I can get at least a few hours in but god knows it’s been long since I’ve been balancing the will to read with the will to sleep so closely. Really brightened my whole month and I mean that


Thanks for the recommendation I just finished it and I really enjoyed it. I’m not a very good anime reviewer and if I have some epiphany on what to say later on I’ll post it here. God damn you were right about the lack of the standard copout endings.


Please do share your thoughts when you have processed them I think that it shows a lot without outright telling. It lets the reader be exposed to ideas and lets you think about them on your own.

Please consider reading this https://mangapark.net/comic/66050/bokutachi-ga-yarimashita it is more of a narrative but just as heavy without being immature at all.
Punpun, Himizu and We did it (linked manga) are the best for dark manga in my opinion.


I'm all caught up on Saltiness. I'm not sure if it's /dep/ related as much, but the mc is an eccentric shut in so I would recommend everyone here give it a read. It's currently 27 chapters.


After reading both Himizu and Bokutachi ga yarimashita the paralells are striking. Both MCs are just looking for a "normal" life yet fail. Then of course there is the actual similarity in storyline which I'm sure I don't need to point out.
If one enjoys the one of them they will surely enjoy the other, yet they are different enough to both warrant reading. Himizu delves more into the feelings of failing at normality while Bokutachi ga yarimashita deals more with guilt (and how that disrupts normalcy).


Also a good recommendation, not for it's heavy themes but it's more of a /wiz/ manga than a /dep/. Has wizzardly themes such as a shut in with scewed world view, but it's also a funny one. First time I laughed at a manga in a good while, brightened my night


Same here. I was caught up on it in less than a week. I can heavily relate to the mc detaching himself from both people and reality.


Only read it is it worth watching Imagine heavily censored.
Glad you enjoyed it the same mangaka of bokutachi ga yarimashita has another manga worth reading VERY wizardly despite its appearance from memory a Yankee manga


bokurano is pretty good, it's dark plot is surrealist with ambient scenes, there's no MC that's the good part, the story reflects a moral paradox that eshews human loyalty and futility of existence with scientific rationality



No, they're all too sane and well-adjusted.


They really are normies just technophile normalfags who value privacy




I agree. I watched in in 2017. It was nice, some really great scenery. Would recommend.


Honestly, how do i get that motherfuckers jobs? That shit is real wish fulfilment for losers.


Remember when "tranny" used to mean something? As in, an actual transsexual and not just someone you disliked?


>Tsumi to Batsu
Only read half yet but god damn, yeah it’s good.
Thanks for the recommendation


Just about every good late 90s anime has been destroyed by normalfag zoomers nostalgic for that time period. I couldn't agree more that the internet and real world shouldn't meet, yet here we are. What made the internet great was that it wasn't reality. Now reality is reflected online and vice versa.


That's why I said I could relate to it. I used to be a security guard in my mid 20s. My job was from 1600-0000 in a hospital parking garage. I would just answer the gate calls on a cellphone to let all the doctors out of their shift, then I would get paid to fuck around like the protagonist and watch anime. Literally I just applied for a low end security company. I'm not sure if it's changed due to diversity quota bullshit, but 6 years ago when I was one they would hire anyone with a pulse.


>seems like foreigners who achieve to make it in japan are hated by their peers
Nar, i think Bahi JD is great. Ilya just sucks.


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Don't know if it strictly fits your criteria but i finished reading the 'Karma' arc of Tezuka's phoenix saga and i really enjoyed it. If the idea of a guy who was fucked since day one, is continuously battered and bruised (sometimes deservedly) and only finds the strength to live by loosing himself in a craft he has a gift for but doesn't particularly like sounds your speed then check it out.


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Spoilers ahead

I just finished himizu a couple days ago, gotta say none of the characters were that likeable apart from his freind Shozo who sacrificed a lot to help pay for Yuuichi's debt. God I fucking hated how he beat him up, but I guess it was a part of that whole 'humans are hypocritical', the ending was definitely memorable. Started reading crime and punishment, seemed pretty shallow to me, and kind of retarded. I didn't finish it (chapter 75 rn) but I will. Gotta say my favourite /dep/ manga would be higurashi, ressentiment, welcome to the nhk, and bokutachi ga yaramashita. Still looking for more depressing seinen shit to read, if anyone has any reccomendations please give me some


Saving for posteriority


Why did you quit? sounds comfy.


>Started reading crime and punishment, seemed pretty shallow to me, and kind of retarded. I didn't finish it (chapter 75 rn) but I will.

…as in the Dostoevsky book or some nip adaptation?


the nip version


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Not that wizzy but I read the manga and the novel and sadly the manga wasn't memorable aside from being less than memorable.

an entire side of the story being psychological is lost on the manga version.
The novel is WELL worth reading.

No longer human the manga is better than the novel though but not the Junji shitto version.


some bird manga i forgot. didnt get around to reading it but some other internet dudes said it was good and deep or something. the title is like something world of punpun


I quit because I needed more money. If I could afford to live on those wages again you better believe I'm going back to that life again.


The most annoying part is they don't even watch the show. They maybe watch few scenes of it and decide they are "lainpilled"


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i think that's just usual zoomer humor where they deliberately collage and nonsensify things


It is but that's not the case here, the guy getting angry at the faggot who drew this is on the money.


how do you do fellow annie may lovers! I too enjoy desus and mudkips lulz


>zoomer humour
I've never seen a generation so bereft of originality or creativity. With all the tech available at their very fingertips and instead of creating something new with already existing materials, all they can do is remix and regurgitate in accordance with the "current trend".

The observation reminds be of Baudrillard:

>Such would be the successive phases of the image:

>it is the reflection of a profound reality;
>it masks and denatures a profound reality;
>it masks the absence of a profound reality;
>it has no relation to any reality whatsoever;
>it is its own pure simulacrum.

>In the first case, the image is a good appearance - representation is of the sacramental

>order. In the second, it is an evil appearance - it is of the order of maleficence. In the
>third, it plays at being an appearance - it is of the order of sorcery. In the fourth, it is no
>longer of the order of appearances, but of simulation.


>With all the tech available at their very fingertips and instead of creating something new with already existing materials, all they can do is remix and regurgitate in accordance with the "current trend".
because they specifically grew up with smartphones and tablets and the shitty social media apps they contain. that's what made most of them so retarded. remember that article a couple of years ago of college professors having to explain to new students what files and folders were because most of them had never used an actual PC or laptop? all they knew about were "apps".


I thought that was an exaggeration.


Ah yes the mystical oldfag internet that we just had to be there to understand despite all we know of oldfag memes being just as infantile and devoid of creativity as any present trends. Zoomers can't understand rage comics, DESU spam or screamer videos. Truly inferior.


>despite all we know of oldfag memes being just as infantile and devoid of creativity as any present trends.
It must be so depressing to be a zoomer, to not even understand that time works in a linear fashion.


File: 1695468194736.webm (157.05 KB, 720x480, 3:2, Flowing.webm) ImgOps iqdb

>Zoomers can't understand rage comics, DESU spam or screamer videos. Truly inferior.

>two imageboard memes and one video-hosting site trend

The internet used to be a massive ecosystem of websites and forums with their own cultures and in-jokes. You did actually have to be there to understand because most of the shit is gone.

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