/lounge/ - Lounge

I've heard that bullying is the harshest in Asian countries such as China and Japan and they seem fairly well behaved.

In terms of shaming, in my city, back in the early 2000s, there was an ad campaign saying that it was bad to be a teen mother and it should be avoided. But there was massive uproar and the ads got taken down immediately.

What do YOU think, OP?
>Sam Hyde Adult Swim skit Youtube embed
Oh, right, you don't think.

No
Bullying is for the pleasure of the bully, any positive outcome is incidental, the bully has no interest in the behaviour change or positive growth towards desirable behavior- in fact bullies will try to prevent that because it removes their source of pleasure. Bullies seek to create stratification in fact, they don’t want conformity they want someone to classify as different to abuse, no matter how small. Maybe it creates conformity for the herd with the individual as a sacrifice evopsych mode but for wizards why would you want to be the sacrifice for normie herds.
Wise application of pain comes from a wise master or person in authority, even then this can fail. Bullying is completely indifferent to an accurate model of how to improve someone.

>>313938
Wrong.
The reason people bully is because they feel uncomfortable with the way a person is behaving.
The bully acts out of a sense of protectiveness toward their peers.
You say that it's a "sacrifice for normie herds" but the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
If the person being bullied persists in their negative behavior despite being bullied, the responsibility lies with them, not their peers.

>>313939
I hate normalfags

>>313939
Bullies aren’t protective, apes display behaviours where higher ranking and stronger apes abuse their own family and lower ranking apes with violence to relieve their own stress. Abusing others benefits the individual.
You worship the herd who consume and abuse outcasts, this is fine. Worship your rotten world, don’t try and say it’s anything other than you thinking that’s worth the price for whatever delusional image you have of humanity as a whole.

>>313940
You may hate normies but they're the building blocks of society and need a leader to guide their behavior.

>>313943
indeed thank to them for building soceity and create the hermit neet hiki situation were we can be safe etc…

What kind of wizard thinks that? Have the zoomer nerds/geeks been beaten down by the world so thoroughly that they accept their bullying as a positive?

>>313946
I think the answer will be politics-brain of modern internet. I may be wrong.

I think bullying students and bullying teachers is the main reason I wont send any children I have a role of guardianship over to a school

I will teach them everything they need to know in a few years at home and then leave them to find a marketable skill or trade while sending them to sports and arts clubs

Bullies are usually dumb scummy people and best avoided at all costs in a society where you can't legally kill em if they fuck with you

>>313948
I wouldn't worry about that.
Think about the reasons why people get bullied. It's not because they're an awesome, productive, intelligent, athletic, well-liked person.
No it was because they were behaving like a degenerate.
The way bullying is portrayed in American media is a total fallacy, they often show the "smart" kids getting bullied.
In reality getting the highest grades in class commands respect. Japanese anime is more honest in regards to this.

>>313949
I was bullied and I am an awesome productive intelligent etc.

Teachers bully the children they are supposed to teach.

I was bullied for no other reason than that I looked similar to someone who had bad social skills (at age 11)

Luckily for me I have a pair of balls and I fought my bullies and brought knives and hammers to school to defend myself and had older kids I was friends with to back me up.

The bullying stops when you defend yourself with physical violence, just like how a disease stops with medicine.

Bullying is a disease and the cure is violence.

The people who dont stick up for themselves continued to get bullied. The only thing bullying proves is who is the bigger coward.

There is no need for it in a place of education.

>>313949
I often wonder what kind of psychopath would come to wizchan and post something like this.

>>313922
People have been bullied and shamed for years into being "politically correct" and it has worked hasn't it?

>>313953
I was expelled from school for mauling a bully with a hammer I stole from my grandfathers toolbox. I was also made to pay tens of thousands in restitution because the bully lost cognitive function (I hit him as hard as I could in the head, then after he fell down, everywhere else in his body).

So instead of the bullying ending I got a transfer to another school where nobody would talk to me and once I turned 18 I was already in severe debt.

There is no escape. I was bound to be alone.

>>313984
you got revenge, at least

>>313922
Normalfags become total cucks around those who they fear or even before us if we manage to properly beat the shit outta them… but vileness, folly seems to be somehow innate.

It's like pokemon, there is no type change: those born psychopaths will always do their stuff whenever they can.

>>313984
May God replenish you for such robbery.

>>313984
i mean there's a difference between standing up for yourself and beating a guy with a hammer so bad that he becomes a tard. This dude might have bullied you, but that's no justification for the crime you committed.

>>313984
God bless you

>>313984
Based!

>>313984
Violent faggot. I'm glad you had to pay.

>>313984
The debt is regrettable, but you made the world a better place

>>313922
creepy crabs need psych treatment

>>314837
Means you haven't been bullied hard enough to understand the rage against the bully. It's a shame the worthless animal continues to live as a tard instead of dying then and there. Though at least the hammer wiz didn't get locked up I guess.

>>314837
>I don't know what compelled to beat him with a hammer.
Being a violent mental retard that would likely have punched down and bullied others if he were raised to a higher social standing. Low impulse control is the quintessential normalfag trait. There are many ways to deal with bullies but acting like a nigger isn't one of them, and the victim in question is likely stronger and more self-assuring because of it.

He chose to be escapeless. He put himself in a position of being alone against his greater desires.

>>314840
What are you even talking about? It's easy to write stoic stuff like that from the comfort of your chair. I'm not saying beating the bully with a hammer was the right thing to do, but everyone knows that, it's not some great wisdom from the divine dimensions. But try to show some empathy. I don't know how the wiz was bullied, but I imagine being punched every day, being constantly humiliated, having your head shoved down the shitter, your notebooks thrown in the trash, and overall being treated like a disgusting, soulless punching bag - I imagine these experiences can make your blood boil to the point where you can't take your mind off revenge.

>>314841
>I don't know how the wiz was bullied, but I imagine [things that only happen in shitty American movies]
>I imagine these experiences can make your blood boil to the point where you can't take your mind off revenge.
But if his idea of revenge is caveman ooga-booga beat head with hard stick, then his ideas of retaliation are more shameful than the act of bullying.

>>314842
>[things that only happen in shitty American movies]
So you reject that these things happen. Do you fear to accept the harshness of reality? That would explain your sterile view of the world, and how you believe that everything can be just talked out. But talking it out only works in cringy anime and shitty American cartoons for children.

I have a bully story to share too. When I was around 8-10 years old, I was the "big fat retard" archetype at school. I would often get punched on the shoulder by older kids in the hallways, and these weren't harmless prods, but actual punches that left bruises. It was painful, but I kind of allowed them to do it because I never reacted. I was taught that if ignore you the bully, they will just go away (this is bullshit advice given by elders who just want you to fuck off). One time, a smaller kid from the bully group jumped on my back and tried to ride me like a horse. A true brainlet was the kid, for he did not realise the position he had put himself into. About two meters behind me was a wall of the hallway. All I had to do was lean back and backpedal at full speed. Just as I was about to tip over - at the peak of the momentum - we reached the wall, and I felt a sudden but gentle stop, then heard a thunk, then the soft rebound of my rider's compressed ribcage. His screeching insults stopped. The thunk was the sound of the back of the critter's head hitting against the wall. He slunk down from my back and onto his knees, and was left dazed and had trouble breathing for a few minutes. The execution was perfect - every witness reported that the weight of the kid on my back caused me to lose my balance, and that I tried to regain it by walking backwards. It was considered an accident and I was deemed innocent, but even despite that, the frequency and intensity of the shoulder punches decreased since that event.

>>314846
It was your fault for being a gay fat retard.

Good as in effective? Yes, it does alter someone. Very few people walk away from shaming unchanged. But you can't direct it and the consequences don't lead to a better person or healthier behavior.
It's a similar flaw that's behind why torture is essentially worthless to gather information.

it's good and fun until someone decides to retaliate by shooting up the school. which is horrible and I hate to see it.

>>314853
Ban guns, problem solved.

>>314860
You should be swirlied for this bait.

>>314846
>It was considered an accident and I was deemed innocent, but even despite that, the frequency and intensity of the shoulder punches decreased since that event.
Congrats.

Bullying is about gaining power. I think Nietzsche was right that the will to power is a fundamental driver in human psychology.

I remember reading somewhere that bullies usually have very high self esteem and that bullying others increases their popularity and self-confidence.
The only way to mitigate this is to provide alternate outlets for kids to express dominance and hierarchy over others: sport.

The targets of bullying are kids who are physically meek (easy target) and/or have unusual social behaviour and dont instinctually mimic the behaviour of other kids like a normal neurotypical person.

>>313922
>changing someone's behavior

you like that? i guess you must think it is a good idea and are open to have your behavior changes by others then. good little puppet you are probably. just an agentless disposable cannonfodder type, mass-human looking for a master to shelter you from thinking yourself.

makes me think you are a middle aged female with no more eggs in the carton, trying to be a dictator to the people around you now, steadily diving deeper into the idea that life is struggle and competition.

>>313922
normies treat those who are different with disdain. Then, when they succeed in alienating such individual becomes psychotic. Then they can play they favourite game - playing good samaritain. But when they succeed in producing another psychopath, they are also affraid… Oh, yes. So, of course. Treating someone like crap is very effective way to changing someone's behaviour. Is it good? Hmm. If you treat someone like crap, don't expect a cookie from me, gringo

>>315060
>they succeed in alienating

i agree with all your reasoning but i think the deeper truth is that being alienated is better then being part of a culture of broken machine humans.

alienated people consider it a curse to be alone even though it is not. it is WAY better to be alone then to be not alone among corrupted guilty humans from the conveyor belt. i can't think of a nicer thing then being alienated from people who were turned into the thing they hate. if your head was clear, you'd want to be alienated from normal people, they are psychological beggars and when you are away from them, you don't have to be and instead can live as an actual human.

anyways cheers muchacho

>>315063
I similtunously agree and disagree. It is better to be alone in modern society. If only the nights were not so darn long, dark and cold. If you catch my drift…

>>315067
>If only the nights were not so darn long, dark and cold. If you catch my drift…

i like to smoke very small amounts of weed but only in the winter, and then i listen to music and dance in my room to it.

there are tons of ways to make yourself feel good. breathing exercise and meditation for example, don't be swept by the wave of dumb guys who never experienced this who will cry that this is new age nonsense (only because they never succeeded in feeling it and have no idea how good it feels)

exercise is great, gently approaching the limit of your body, sweating, moving lymph. that's another way to make yourself feel wonderful.

being creative in some way, that's another way to feel good.

getting rid of old stuff you hate i dunno if that officially counts as a feel good method but for me it does.

fasting is crazy. that's a rough way, that will make you look at yourself in a new like and appreciate how strong you are. is a scandal how little fasting is discussed among the people who would benefit so much from it. it is a hand to hand combat against all the bad parts in yourself because when you stop eating for a while, those parts of you will come out of hiding, trying to seduce you to stop and with fasting you can punch these bad parts of yourself in the face and then they will shut up and stop sabotaging your life.

the more ways you find to feel good the more your nights will be good automatically.

>>315071

i forgot building shit. going to the construction store and trying to understand what all the things do and then make use of them in your home. i build a big ridiculous crude shelf with a bed on top and i love it. i have slept so much better since i built my own bed.

Public shaming should be brought back…

>>313922
All bullying does is build up the ego of the bully at the cost of the victim's mental health. It benefits no one because even the bully will suffer as he ages and gains self-awareness.

Shaming is a little different, in that it can benefit the spectators. It shows the consequences of selfish, degenerate behavior.

>>313984
you're the hero we need anon. you have my respect. no joke.

>>315057
I've often heard bullies described as low self-esteem but I think its more complicated. If you look at trolls who bully online they tend to fall into two categories (with some overlap):

Sociopaths: They seek entertainment by making others suffer. A key sign of sociopathic tendencies is their habit of insulting others while rarely acknowledging insults directed at them. Because they have low empathy, they are not emotionally invested in arguments. They engage purely to stir the pot as long as it remains entertaining. Rather than attacking credibility, sociopaths prefer to exploit perceived weaknesses to maximize pain. Crucially, they do not need to "win" because they are emotionally detached. This makes them an unpredictable threat to anyone with normal emotional development. Their main goal is to manipulate, provoke, and enjoy the resulting chaos.

Narcissists: Known for their fragile self-esteem, narcissists are obsessed with maintaining an illusion of superiority. Anyone perceived as more competent or respected becomes a threat that must be diminished. Unlike sociopaths, narcissists feel a compulsive need to engage with others because their sense of self depends on dominance and validation. Their attacks often focus on undermining a person’s self-worth to lower their perceived value in the eyes of others. Control is their primary objective. They strive to place themselves at the center of attention and dictate the terms of social validation. Most importantly, narcissists must win, even if only in their own minds. Their ego cannot tolerate defeat, which is why they often become some of the most persistent and obnoxious trolls online.

While these two personality types differ in motivation, many online bullies exhibit a mix of both traits. The only way to "win" against a narcissist is to ignore them entirely and deny them the validation they crave. Engaging with a sociopath requires emotional resilience and a firm defense against manipulation. In both cases, the best strategy is to avoid playing a game that can never be truly won.

>>317835
Bullies are just trying to help. This is the internet and everyone wants to present themselves as well as possible, so every bullying story you're going to read is "I got bullied because I was awesome and everyone was so jealous of me." But for me the times I got bullied was because there was something legitimately wrong with me. I was bullied for having bad breath. I was bullied for having dandruff. I was bullied for being quiet and having no personality. These bullies were ultimately trying to help me to break bad habits.

>>317839
I know you're a sociopath-normie who is kind of low IQ and fails at emulating wizards in any meaningful sense (and is not a virgin either), but here you go:

Nobody chooses to be born introverted or with genes that cause dandruff no matter how much ketoconazole shampoo they use.
Bullying is disgusting and shows the person is willing to torture or even kill others if there were no repercussions.

>>317841
this
Bullies are not trying to help, that is not their intention. They see something they don't like, so they address it with violence and ridicule. The bully feels good when he puts himself in contrast, and distances himself from the bullied. And since he gets away with it, he will do it again. Bullying is not an act of compassion, it's an act of domination and it feeds the bully's ego. The more there are people "inferior" to him, the better he feels about himself. It's one of the most basic ways of establishing hierarchy in tribes. One of the reasons why the bullied rarely fight back, is that in tribes with hierarchy, it's more important who does the act, than what the act it. When the popular bully beats the unpopular kid, then it's "cool" and "impressive". But if the unpopular kid gave the bully the exact same treatment, he would be labeled a crazy insane psycho.

Look at the blue hair lady in >>317835 picture. If she was in your community, wouldn't you like to exclude her, rather than understand and help her? That's the bully way of thinking.

>>314513
i beg to differ
an eye for an eye plus interest
bonus for starting shit

>>314526
Are you that bully that got beat up?

>>314840
>>314842
defending yourself isn't nigger or caveman behavior. in fact, that's precisely what the bullies would prefer for everyone to think, that the bullied should just take it without fighting back, and that to do so would make the bullied something even worse than the bullies themselves are.
but if looked objectively outside of anyone's interests, both those of the bully and the bullied, that's retarded. bullying itself is nigger and caveman behavior.

i remember some years ago a wiz posted some work by psychologists or sociologists that showed that bullying was a behavior that naturally arises in groups of people above a certain number (7 or something), and that it was somewhat random, and that even people who had never been bullied before ended up experiencing it for the first time after being shuffled around groups enough times for the study
or something like that, i might be remembering some things wrong, but i'm interested if anyone can post it or mention whatever it was

it's just a way problems get communicated

people get angry at someone's behavior, they vent it at that person, now the person is aware that their actions irked someone

actually causing a change is a whole different matter

>>318189
Exactly.
People are overthinking it with all the reddit psychologist "narcissist" stuff.
You see this in the animal kingdom too. Like when chickens peck at a weaker chicken until it dies.

Do you mean 'good' as in effective? Then the obvious correct answer is yes. Any person will definitely change behavior under stress. You just don't know the change you're causing. If OP meant change with a particular outcome in mind, then the answer gets complex and a binary response no longe applies, however, the post doesn't state any particular desired outcome from that change, so the answer remains yes.

Pretty much every bully i've ever encountered was severely mentally ill or just odd in some way, like being intellectually disabled.
Inevitably when this topic comes up theres people engaging in bully-worship for some strange reasons. Theres nothing to admire, bullies are dysfunctional people. It says more about society that bullying isn't treated extremely harshly.

THIS IS WHAT CAUSED TRANNIES TO EXIST

>>318190
You would have died within seconds in nature if there were no organized peacekeepers like police.

Bullying can be good but most of the time it is done for the wrong reasons and to those who don't deserve it.

>>319237
correct bullies are typically cowards hiding behind "the law"

There are three types of bullying, though professionals like to only talk about two. Physical bullying, social bullying, and sexual bullying. We're men and the third is very rarely an issue for us but I have heard some fictional-sounding accounts of gaybashing involving nominally heterosexual men sodomizing a gay man to straighten him out. I do not believe most of those accounts are real, but if they are they do not seem likely to have the intended effect.

Since most professional bully environments are female (particularly nursing, which has a much higher rate of hazing and higher severity of hazing than the military, police force, or prison), and most bullies are interfemale offenders I think we can discard altogether the idea that non-criminal, socially focused bullying of and among adults is a useful activity. If social bullying in any sense "worked" in the sense of producing predictable and useful results then succubi and female nurses and teachers in particular (professions with the highest rates of bullying but also professionals with whom everyone has relied on and trusted as absolute authority at some point or another) would rule the entire world unquestionably, and Donald Trump would not be president of the United States nor currently defunding schools and nursing programs.

High school bullying is largely a hollywood myth created due to the illegality of using child actors to reenact juvenile sexual trauma to explain character behaviors or story beats and social clustering. There has always been a minor amount of sexually motivated bullying in high school particularly in the form of sexual assault of females and/or sexual mateguarding against males, it's never ever really notable demographically. Stephen King's "Carrie" managed to do a decent job of compressing the actual lifetime of interfemale sexual trauma a severe bullying victim would endure into a filmable not-illegal non-pornographic non-rapine metaphor but people DID understand the abstractions he was using. King's book was blatantly obviously working with heavyhanded sexual metaphors, particularly menstruation, and from that it was obvious to every female bodied person who was ever bullied or sexually assaulted that Carrie's "real" world age would have been junior high or late elementary, when such things happened to them.

Since most sexual bullying is endured by females and since that occurs across a wide swath of ages and is incredibly well studied, documented and researched, I think we can generally agree that sexual bullying has not been demonstrated to produce a social gain by any metric.

This really just leaves physical assault. So the question becomes, "is regular violence a positive social environment in which to raise a child to adequate social functionality in adulthood."

Irregular violence is unquestionably bad, that's how learned helplessness was created in dogs, but there's less reason for certainty in regular and predictable violence.

The origin of violence from a bully indicates that peers have a right, duty, or role in acting as parent replacements during early life. And this is the indication that a child will necessarily receive, even without Dr. Jordan Peterson parentifying Nelson into a weird pseudo-father for the emotionally fatherless Milhouse. This seems extremely questionable, it's arguable that even teachers do not have such a right nor such a responsibility despite their socially assigned role. For the most part elementary schoolers are dumbasses regardless of which among them is the largest dumbass. The idea that society should on the whole start trusting the dumbest age demographic that a child interacts with on a daily basis instead of the better equipped adults or even the most minimally socially functional of parents would be an argument against the family and familial authority as a social institution. If peers are able to bridge parenting gaps then it's certain that nobody needs nor benefits from brothers.

The social environment in which peers socially replaced parents to the greatest extent was in British boarding schools. Those boarding schools happen to also be one of the rare exemplars of inter-male sexual bullying. The sodomy that took place behind closed doors and between the walls of such schools has been the stuff of legends. Even Korea's combination of mandatory conscription and boy-aesthetic fetishization did not produce the sheer volume of forceful homosexualization as happened at British boarding schools. But, despite obligate homosexual servitude, many of the targets of both Korean and British sodomy relapse into heterosexuality when removed from this environment of sexual bullying. So, to reiterate from earlier, sexual bullying does not seem effective at altering someone's behavior. I do think that sexual bullying is distinct from regular physical assault but there are others who would categorize the two as being the same.

Even in a best case scenario in which regular violence is extremely effective and socially beneficial, bullying seems likely to turn out to be wasted or misdirected social effort. The entire pro-bullying argument seems to be that parents are not allowed the legal free hand to apply violence to their children rather than that children are inherently more likely to be correct in the application of violence.

Which forms of legally recognized abuse should parents be encouraged to perform on their children, with or without medically diagnosed disabilities on the child's part?

How much neglect and food restriction and forcible salt ingestion is good for the boy and what is the socially tolerable number of child deaths by forcible salt intake? Does the motivation for salt food replacement matter, e.g. when the mommy is diagnosed with Munchausen-By-Proxy disorder versus when mommy and daddy decide to induce metabolic crisis to force weight loss on daughter who is too hefty for ballet and other parents make fun of them at their parent meetings?

>>319315
kek

>>313931
>>313931
>such as China and Japan and they seem fairly well behaved.

China is one of the most barbaric countries in the world, they would curb stomp their mother for 10 dollars

>>319361
>China is one of the most barbaric countries in the world, they would curb stomp their mother for 10 dollars

Not true. There are a million "China rekt" videos online posted by people who HATE China. Almost none of those videos show a single murder. It's always random accidents like a car crash or a factory mishap. Murder almost never happens in China.

>>319364
China has some mass knife killers but they're schizophrenics who received no medical help.

>>313931
I've heard the opposite, that bullying in Japan, China, and Taiwan consists almost entirely of social exclusion and shunning and other very indirect forms. That even namecalling is considered overreach and places the namecaller into the same social category as the namecalled. That in those countries they have taken so strongly to the idea that physical and social aggression are sexual in nature that when they look at any piece of western media showing interpersonal conflict they assume homosexuality. So the bullying that occurs, occurs pervasively, intensively, and at every level of existence, but is of an extremely mild variety compared with oh let's say Africa or Brazil or Russia or California. Since social exclusion is not just a result but the method of bullying, social conformity and integration becomes a honed instinct and nonconformity is in and of itself a punishment rather than just an act that is punished.

>>319367
bullying in japan is also about intelligent verbal pushing of anything seen as strange or alien.
>i am a hardcore origami fan and been doing it for 5 years
<really? wow, that is impressive. that's impressive, right guys? hey, can you show us something? here, i'll get a paper!
>*makes something*
<*snickerings from group* eh? what is this? look at this! *laughter*
>heh, this is uhm, a puppy head. *feels defensive* it's a nieche sort of style to do
<hey wiz, what's this button on your bag? is that a anime succubus? woah..
>yeah uh, it's uh, watamote
<why do you have that on your bag? you like her?
>i mean yeah, she's a great, i feel like im like her a lot
<HUH?! *laughter from group* you feel like you are her?

etc
no one wants to feel like they're strange or an outcast, but this is especially the case in japan where everyone tries to have a clean outward appearance

>>319368
What a womanly people.

>>319376
Yes. Social bullying, even moreso than bullying in general, is extremely feminine behavior. This is a thread about bullying and shaming, the two most feminine behaviors on this accursed Earth. If your stomach was not already turned by the feminine and sexualized bully-worship of >>319236 depicting the fictional bully-stereotype as a fantasy daddy-dom who is just there to fuck you straight yes daddy harder daddy, then I can't imagine being put off by anything happening in the orient.

>>319368
I have read that the verbal status displays are much shallower in impact than the social exile aspect, and are also part of the reason the profile of bullying victims doesn't span the whole IQ curve the way it does in the west. At least on a psychological level, since awareness of social exclusion does not stop when one is alone in a room and verbal sparring can typically be parried at least partly successfully if one keeps one's cool.

I have read that Japan is a shame-oriented society for most participants and especially for bullies themselves, but a guilt-oriented society for severe bullying victims. Since most of the society is shame-oriented any guilt-oriented section lacks either the tools or language to process this or to reintegrate into the mainstream. Which means that someone has to have quite a lot of social and emotional aptitude, above the neurological median, to ever reintegrate into society since most social deficits impede the ability to process guilt or to comprehend someone whose base values are completely reversed from your own. This being part of the reason "female hikkikomori" keep getting lumped into hikkikomori stats and the same as the reason "high function" autistics get pushed into autism stats–why just look, society's methods of treating hikkikomori or autistics involve X% recovery rates and future employment prospects that just happen to match these categories that everyone knows don't really reflect the general case, so we just need to keep funding and or keep paying the right professions and keep pushing them into servile forms of employment.

>>319368
>bullying in japan is also about intelligent verbal pushing of anything seen as strange or alien.
How could you bulli this face?