/wiz/ - Wizardry

You are talking to normalfags, in a normalfag perspective, unless you are famous, rich or get laid a lot, your opinion is irrelevant to them for obvious reasons and "touch grass" is the moment response for anything not normalfaggatory. Of course you are losing a lot isolating yourself, social aspect is basically all the society interaction and life, the important here is if you care about what you are losing and looks like yes.
>in an argument online I was told my opinion on topics related to society doesn't matter since I am like an alien with how isolated I am and that hurt me at my core. I've shared my philosophy before and got told I need to "touch grass" because it reveals how autistic I am.
The normalfag world is basically succubis and social validation, same for most of society, so even if the normalfag opinion don't matter in a topic, normalfags will still care for normalfag opinion on anything because that's what they have to compare and following a high elevated normalfag is better than nothing in an unknown problem. The same happens for wizards
>Are we missing out on key experiences?
Key experiences enough to affect how things should work? No, and it's not like wizards had not tried to conform at first experience, but anyway, the key take is that normalfags follow wizards thoughts in a way or another without the normalfag validation

>>214455
Also, the normalfag tried to invalidate your argument using a fallacy, if that's not obvious since worked hard
>do you disagree with me?
<go read a book

Being able to examine perspective other than your own has nothing to do with lived in experience. Why are stories about crime so popular with people who are so distant from that lifestyle if that was the case?

Who cares what normies say? They don't have souls

There is no such thing as a key experience. Life is different for everyone. Have all those normalfags missed out on the wiz experience? Have all those people born during peacetime missed out on the war experience?

It's is the peak of haughtiness and self importance to think your experiences are necessary for not just all humans, but for life to be understood.

>Are our views on human matters irrelevant?

No, but obviously more limited. Maybe you can't write about what's it's like to be in love or have a child, but you can certainly write about what it's like to be alone, isolated, alienated, rejected, etc. This is also part of the human experience and many normies will never understand that part of it.

Society can be organized in many ways, and we just happen to live in one of those miserable ways of organization.
The fact that you wonder if you are missing things, is because in some way your body and your unconscious may be yearning to express itself "normally". Even the fact that you want to make art is another way your body wants to express itself.

Is it worthwhile to integrate socially? No, it is not rewarding neither for the body nor for the soul, yet the body longs to be able to express itself…yñ>>214454

>be me
>28, work from home living w/ parents
>agoraphobic and get homesick rly easily because home is comfy and nice and i have actual OCD that makes me trip out and do compulsions if i get too anxious/homesick
>asexual, have no interest in drugs/partying/sports or whatever normalfags consider fun
>no desire to have children and i could never be a responsible parent anyway
>nevertheless, i don't think i could handle living completely alone because ocd/anxiety. living with roommates might be cozy tho but i'd have to get reaccustommed to any new living arrangements
>most of my hobbies are solitary and indoor, my biggest passion in life has always been playing vidya
>have super long detailed backlogs of games, anime, fantasy/scifi literature, movies, etc. that get longer than i can clear them
>get super giddy and excited whenever i think about how i will always have more to experience
>the real world may be interesting but human imagination and fiction are limitless
>mostly introverted but i'm super happy with my online friends, and i love doing random stuff on the internet from the comfort of my bedroom
>never been depressed, just dealt with anxiety stemming from my OCD for my entire life

Am I supposed to one day "grow out" of my comfy hobbies and start yearning for the normalfag life? I sure hope not!

>>214465
son, you have a normalfag life
you have a stable job
you live with your parents
you are 28
you have online friends
you've never suffered from depression or other mental illness
you share the same hobbies as billions of other people and they are the most mainstream possible
I don't understand what makes you think you are different.

>>214454
You're missing out on the key experience of killing yourself. Give it a try

There aren't really "key experiences" that you can self-initiate to be valid in the eyes of society. That proof is always with-held, and without it, they will always attack you, always insinuate that you need to conform to them. If you internalize their mentality about being "normal" or "valid", you're just going to destroy yourself. They laugh at that. Their mentality is entirely about domination over others, and they don't let you forget it or walk away from it, if they can. The only thing you can do is be too annoying for them to seek out for more torture, and in this way, they have created a predatory society, basically for free since it was already their proclivity to enjoy torturing others for reasons beyond mere benefit. Then they wonder why this society turns on itself, which anyone who thinks about it for five minutes would tell you is the result of such an ethos. Internally, though, the ethos of predation is self-justifying, and it is really the only concept of justice humans have ever known. We may speak of a different world where we get along or at least avoid torturing each other this much, but that has nothing to do with justice or fairness or anything that human societies have valued. That peace is only for those who are "in the club", granted temporary protection from the predation, until they must climb the ladder and gain initiation to the next degree. This hilariously ineffective method is the basis for all human modes of education, and it is implied that humans learn in accord with this purpose, rather than a native curiosity about the world which never really accomplishes much. Only by threats and fear is the intellect made to pursue any other goal, and anyone who offers their mind to anything other than the thrill of dominating and torturing others is "retarded" and only makes the situation worse. That's all humans have ever really known, despite all of their protests that they are different. All humanity ever did know was one scam after another, and not even particularly effective scams. It's easy to scam when you force people to play along at knife-point, and then tell them they're not allowed to acknowledge that there is a knife.

I doubt it will change any time soon. It is only mitigated by a world which doesn't care about humans and imposed consequences when that way of life turns on itself, and humanity willfully aggravated something that was already built into everything it did, because depopulation became the dream of institutions rather than mere torture. I believe there will come a time when humanity simply refuses to speak to each other any more than they need to, and this is the only way that such a world would be mitigated. This would also make apparent that human depopulation will continue past the "golden billion" that the rulers of the world presently want. I would be surprised if there were more than a few million humans, and there would not be a particularly worthwhile need of "slavery" as such. Free labor has always been more efficient in a productive sense, but slave labor is always economically preferred since economics values exploitation and suffering and scoffs at productivity. A society that actually worked, which produced things for need, would very quickly obviate most of its labor and not require an onerous obligation placed on people by the state, and immediately, large classes of labor would no longer be desirable or things permitted to be carried out. It would instead be simple enough for the operator of a farm to offer surplus to those who can't farm, or who suffered a bad harvest, or who due to inability to farm developed some other specialization. Humans today see any difference of ability as a necessary political distinction, and there is only total disability in that view. The idea of rehabilitation of any sort is forbidden by the dominant values of this society, even if that would have made the present situation tolerable. They simply do not want anyone to live, except people like themselves who will scream for ever-increasing quantities of blood. In a different world, our desire to be left alone would make mutual cooperation preferable to the alternative of economic atomization. Even so, I imagine most people would prefer self-sufficient life, to ameliorate the distrust that is common to humanity. With nothing more than a few farm hands to assist the land holder, who themselves have space of their own to live a life worth living, most pieces of land would be far more productive. It is the predatory behavior of humanity that sucks away well over 99% of human product and dumps it purely on the predatory rituals or complete wastes of energy to cope with humanity's shitty behavior. I leave out promises of automated labor and robotic industry, because those are frankly irrelevant to the proposition. It would be far easier to grant to humans land and income compatible with a free life as laborers, then it would be to force everyone to work and placate managers. The landlord's idleness is not particularly interesting, so long as the landlord did not make life miserable for his workers. Perhaps the landlord is old or disabled, or has some other line of work, or the landlord works alongside the other farmers but only has so much energy. It is the obsessive micromanagement to impose "false equality" that undoes socialism. The ideal situation is that the workers don't need to be managed or tied forcibly to the land, but are there because they want to be there, because they like having food and see no reason why surplus couldn't be shared to make everyone's life easier, and most of all keep them free. What would be eliminated is this wasteful predatory society that exists purely for the thrill of making others suffer. The "free rider" problem is a non-problem, because eventually someone will see that growing food is necessary. It only becomes a problem because humans are so committed to predation and presume any other labor exists to be humiliated, and this goes for the "good workers" whose primary act is to lock out the lowest workers or impose on them onerous work while laughing at them. That's how slaveries go, and humans love slavery more than anything. None of that really helped anyone, and if humans simply refused to speak to each other, did their daily labor - and realistically this wouldn't require round-the-clock shifts for genuinely useful work like farming - then no one would have to starve and the most obvious cause of human malice would be averted. This would be in the clear interest of most people, except for humans being a malicious race by nature that can't stop themselves from doing this. They have to be ruled by fear - it's the only language they regard, and they all died for it. For nothing. I have no sympathy. The sickest thing is that in the end, something like this will have to happen, because the proprietary nightmare has made the society incapable of reproducing itself. The nightmare only continues because as humans are poisoned, the hand of the torturers is stronger and stronger, and unlike the past, there is no force in humanity that works against torture now. We only see the beginning of the living Hell that humanity always wanted, and that really makes all the aspirations about producing anything suspect in the first place. It was just a holding action for the thrill of torture to be maximized, and here we are.

Anyway, all of that said, there isn't anything really worth experiencing, and certainly the assholes insisting on telling you what you ought to be are the last people who should be trusted on that. I want food and security, and I possess those things enough for the time being. Every time I tried to explain this very simple way humanity would not have to be a torture cult, which would make everyone's life easier, they start shrieking like retards and insist on making this worse. For all of their shrieking, they never do anything, since I can make their lives miserable in turn and have no regard for their failed race and its retarded sentiments. The only result is, after a lot of needless rigamarole that benefits no one by a third party laughing at us for stoking this, I have security and some money for food. If I had to farm the land myself, I would do so, but in this sick human race, they chase out anyone in farm labor because they don't need us or want us. They brag about cannibalizing the land, because if harvests fail, they engineer the Malthusian situation they always desire. It's pretty hard to work in a society where "work" and "value" are entirely associated with making others suffer. That's what money is.

>>214471
holy shit i ain't reading all of that i'm sorry

>>214474
I'm not him, but make a fucking effort, jesus.
Though I admit he could have used some more line breaks.

>>214454
If you have lived through your childhood you have enough experience of the world and of human life, imho.
I understand the feeling, but if you have a certain vision of the world, all those "key experiences" as you call them, you would have experienced them throught the lens of your world view, of your already present philosophy of life.
So, no, it doesn't really matter that much.
And certainly it shouldn't stop you from making art.

> I want to make art but I worry that my autistic perspective will make it speak to no one as my lack of life experience will be visible through it and the ideas I will be communicating are not in touch with what people feel.
Good art is understood and appreciated by like 1% of people, that's to be expected.
Good art is pessimistic in nature, so of course normalfags are going to not like it.

You're missing out on nothing bro, just try to do activitied that doesn't necessarily need people around you, and you'll find out how it's better than hanging with fake people

>>214480
>If you have lived through your childhood you have enough experience of the world and of human life,
What a load of bullshit. Childhood is only 11 years. Kids have no understanding of the world or human life and most are stupid that's why they are so easily deceived, tricked, abused, brainwashed, etc.

If you're forced to interact with normalfags, just get good at making jokes. That's the only interaction worth having with them.

>>214474
I can make it short and omit the social commentary and say - society is fucked, even if you wanted to "be normal", and looking for some marker of proof that you can do yourself is the classical Sisyphus trap. When they get you hooked in to the drip of information and revealed secrets if you do this next thing, and the next, to attain the degree that is all on you, they have a sucker who will buy "a piece of blue sky". It's a very basic thing that many cults do, because it works on the way we have understood society and the threats to our existence. The social details of our recent history are just the environment these hucksters operate in, and they would find a way to adapt to any society, any situation we exist in. You can't tell them to not do this, even though it would have made this world a lot easier for everyone in ways that are obvious that most people, even mean people, will do basic things.

Anyway, you're experiencing life now. The rare moments where we can touch something of the world that is genuine, or at least two people can speak to each other without the most flagrant lying that is sadly the rule today, are things to treasure - and things to fear, because this connection is exactly what the liars who make the world into this exploit. But, I think you can make standards of comparison. If you sense that the society is fucked up and you're alien to it, you already have enough sense to know much of what humanity will bring. The world is better than that, and really, most people, even if they do normie stuff, are better than that. There's enough suffering in the world and the vast majority of humanity, ourselves included, knows that this doesn't work and has never worked. Certain people keep insisting we have to accept it because they've been rewarded, but simply by refusing to play their game - resisting their efforts to make the singular institution that tells us what we are and what we are allowed to be, when that institution is clearly ruinous to anything we would consider good - we're doing more than all of the promises such people dangle in front of us. The people who do this see the whole world as a torture chamber where they're constantly fed a reward stimulus, and this is where the utilitarians come from.

>I want to make art but I worry that my autistic perspective will make it speak to no one as my lack of life experience will be visible through it and the ideas I will be communicating are not in touch with what people feel.
This only matters if you want to make trending popcorn art which you can only do if you engage with the normie world but if you don't then you can actually make the art you like and that might even end up catching the interest of others as well.

>>214488
> Kids have no understanding of the world or human life and most are stupid
which doesn't apply to those who browse here
we were different as a child already

>>214490
>If you're forced to interact with normalfags, just get good at making jokes. That's the only interaction worth having with them.
true.

>>214454
Your error was to expect they were smart enough to handle them, stop chasing people.

>>214505
This. If I compare my 39 year old self to my 12 year old self, I already had a 99% grasp of what humanity is back then.

Hell, I moderated and became the admin of a very active phpbb forum at age 13 by larping as a 25 year old adult. English is my 3rd language which I learned on my own, but I wrote at a native level that fooled adults born and raised in anglophone countries.
I never had a "childhood" as normies define it. I had a fairly good grasp of life as a kid.
The only difference is that I'm no longer hopeful or experience joy as I did when I had no life experience.

In all ways and forms my preteen version was superior to my soon 4 decades old tired ass.

>>218289
>Hell, I moderated and became the admin of a very active phpbb forum at age 13 by larping as a 25 year old adult
impressed smart wizzie

>>218290
If I was smart, I would have gotten into crypto early and held it.
I found it in 2011 and sold 30 btc the moment I could cash out a thousand dollars for little effort.

I was just a low risk tolerance schmuck who is afraid of the future like 99,99% of people.

>>218295
at least you take initiatives and you're kind of free,aren't you?

>>214454
The short answer is: yes.

nah

Your limbic system mistakes normies as neurodiverse. But no, sir. Just crap and dullness that doesnt even make the mind interested even a bit

Just this stupid FOMO tingling your head, to fall for some begging of their attention and maybe get their piss in your face after trying to get it.

We lack, yes. But not what this normalcy whisper us we do.

It is a distraction

Have you ever read "The Vision of Piers Plowman"? Has anyone who was not assigned to read it by an educational institution? How much of the most important key fundamentals of the life of a common man does anyone alive today share? Really? "Those who work, those who fight, and those who pray." These are not understandable social categories to the citizen of the 21st century. They were the fundamental social categories of all of human history to a point, but only human history. Human prehistory was almost certainly as strange to the humans who lived within history as the human present would be to either category. Piers Plowman is kept current because it was so in touch with the experience of life of a normal vice-filled common man, but no-one shares that experience or that worldview and it would be nonsense to try to replicate it.

One day in the near future, perhaps as late as the end of the 22nd century, most human consciousness will flow from neuro-paste cultured in wafers which gained most of its experience of its "world" through interaction with diffusion models and language models which are themselves trained off of the creative output of those large banks of human biopaste wafers. There will be much more consciousness embodied in the relatively small volume of biopaste than in all the generations of human life that lead up to it. As far as we can tell today all human intelligence and consciousness exists within a relatively small volume of a few neural clusters along the surface of the gray matter of the brain, we would not really have much use for the majority of the neurons of a normal brain. The living space and resources required for an apartment complex would house the cognitive resource equivalent to millions in this more efficient human mind harvest farm. Life within the jar along the wafer in the dream of a robot harvesting your joy and fear and imagination and thought is the key, fundamental human lifecycle and human lifespan that is waiting for those who arrive in the near future, and it can only be averted to anything else by way of a competency crisis or by poisoning the advancement of science with deliberate scientific fraud. The experience of being human will not be fundamentally similar to life enmeshed in the family dramas and interpersonal traumas of early 21st century liberal two legged fully bodied society for long.

Perhaps most human brain matter will have been dedicated to living its early life as a butterfly. Your lived experience is not diminished by having never lived an entire life as a digital butterfly. The LLM that will teach the neural paste wafer how to imagine itself a butterfly will find no use for anything you write on what it is to be human. But that will be just the same no matter what position you write it from. It is your writing, and only yours.

>>214490
I agree. Interactions with normgroids/normalfags/normies/normyloids that include humor, jokes, memes, etc. are great and very enjoyable. It's a shame that they're shit at every other thing and would backstab you over the smallest thing.