/wiz/ - Wizardry

Suffering is the backbone of not just civilizations, but every ecosystem we know of. We with our finite time on a planet of finite resources must all suffer at some point for something we want, and in obtaining it we must impose suffering on to other beings. Humans have for the most part been working on minimizing our own suffering, as well as the suffering of other living beings. Science allows us to dull pain, heal the sick, and grow food without the need for slaughter. We've built machines to replace busy fingers and devised encyclopedias to afford academics some shortcuts. Preventing the suffering of the humans of the future is the primary method of obtaining happiness for a healthy human. Suffering is mandatory, devising ways to overcome it without needing to wait millions of years for evolution to shield us from it - that is the human benefit.

>I don't know if it's worth the suffering of the many.
These many, the ones in the stripmines and sweatshops… They are made to suffer. It's their lot in life. Their demands for sustenance outweigh their possible contributions. Even if they spend every hour of their conscious life suffering in a lithium mine, it's the farmers who must suffer to feed them, and the mule who must suffer to sow the field. Generation after generation they use the same methods to achieve the same ends. While we us our intellect to adapt and avoid the things that we'd otherwise suffer, these 'many' opted instead to develop philosophies that taught their youngest to accept suffering. Through Hinduism and Buddhism, these 'many', these 'Bug People', have been raised for centuries to not consider overcoming suffering as an option at all. Instead they believe that suffering is so ultimately powerful that the only hope to endure it is to ignore it. Where humans pass down knowledge of how to make life easier, these bug people pass down fear for what becomes of those who try to overcome the inevitable, indefinite, all-encompassing suffering.

In nature suffering can only exist in contrast to enjoyment. Dog eat dog. Humans mitigated suffering, and in its place developed new means of enjoyment through arts and adventure. The many Bug People believe that suffering exists as the only state. They continue to spread this mindset down to their man children, which they accomplish through the only thing they do enjoy: sex. Bug Peoples.

>>215750
Only a small number of humans can reach that heights you talk about and they won't be any of us. You don't know if the heights of humanity is worth the suffering of the many? The people reaching the heights of humanity are those who are genetically, environmentally and luckily gifted. You and me are part of the many that suffer for them to thrive. Sure it's worth it for these artists, business magnates and athletes with tragic background to overcome their difficulties and reach self-actualization. It's not worth it for us that are rewarded with cow shit down our throats for our troubles.

>>215752
>While we us our intellect to adapt and avoid the things that we'd otherwise suffer

I assume by "we" you mean western society as a whole because I just got lucky to be born in the 1st world.

>these 'Bug People'

This kinda thinking is dangerous for me. We got some wizards posting from the 3rd world and they are very well conscious of their suffering but just can't do anything about it.

>>215753
What I'm wondering about is if I should remove my ego and stop feeling bad over me, and fellow average people and see humanity as a whole and enjoy witnessing the heights its capable of.

With all the criticism of modern society I, despite suffering myself, feel like witnessing the potential humanity is capable of is worth it. Even if I won't afford living in that engineering marvel skyscraper it's interesting to see what people will do next. I feel like when something unique like humanity happens you gotta see what it can do. To me that's the closest we got to a meaning of life. If we just kept living a humble life on farms I would feel like that's a waste of potential.

But at the same time I am hypocrite who is trying to be comfortable in the moment instead of enduring pain for a greater goal.

>to reach greatness a lot of people had to suffer.
This is false and slave type thinking. If youre born into suffering you will just continue to suffer with only a chance to reduce suffering. You're not destined for greatness if you don't even have the basics.
>Like how an elitist art school might create an amazing artist while other students might crumble from the stress. Meanwhile a school that coddles everyone will produce medicority.
That's not how it works. Talent is innate. What you're describing is a possibility of a talented person being exceptionally creative. You don't get to that point through trial and error of schooling. Hard work is a myth and all famous artists were born into rich families of musicians, aristocrats, painters, sculpturs.

"Having hope that something interesting might happen so I will continue to suffer" is what I'm getting from your post. It's really not the way to go about living. You may as well kill yourself.

>>215758
>With all the criticism of modern society I, despite suffering myself, feel like witnessing the potential humanity is capable of is worth it.
If it makes you feel good then go ahead. Any small amount of meaning you can get from life is valuable. I personally don't agree with you because I believe there is more suffering than good on earth. Thinking that your suffering is worth it so you can watch other people achieve great things reminds me of that meme where a guy bicycle got stolen and he thinks it's fine because it makes the thief happier than it made him sad. I am a petty envious bitch though. You can believe anything you want as long as it made you feel better. That's the only thing that beliefs are good for.

The only reason you love art is your own suffering in contrast to it. Pain only ever justifies itself, there is 0 reason for it to be here, it's just physically more likely for it to be here than not and so get fucked. The very notion of "heights" to reach is such a pointless mirage. The people at the top feel nothing special. Satisfaction is not the goal of life, it's the carrot used to keep life moving. The goal is where life moves towards, which so far as we've seen is waste material and complex suffering. It produces nothing else.

This other business we spend all our lives talking up and around is only a ritual dance to mitigate suffering. It is courteous to leave people be and partake in it. There's equally no point in disrupting it in the name of truth, I'm only bringing it up here as part of the discussion on pain itself. The best thing you can do for yourself is find something you're interested in no matter how useless and spend your time thinking about that instead, avoid your thoughts slapping you around without gain. But make no mistake, in the end there is only pain and narratives. Not even people.

>I feel like seeing all the heights humanity is capable of makes life worth it
No piece of art or of technology is worth the intrinsic suffering of life.

>and yet I don't know if it's worth the suffering of the many.
It isn't. Even the "successful" ones are suffering from all the sacrifices they had to make.

>I wonder if I should stop giving individual suffering so much importance and see myself as a tiny part in a big mechanism.
That's what nature (through the biology of your body) and society (through rules and laws) want you to be; you should only think about yourself, instead.

>I wonder if I am overthinking pain when it's just a mechanism we evolved to control our behavior.
Pain isn't "just" anything, pain is the worst thing existing, but at the same time you can't escape it because it is the foundation of existence. At least try to reduce / limit it, though.

But at the end of it all, it just sounds like you want to excel (or at least be good) at some hobby or something. If that's the case, yes, you are overthinking it. Just do what you like, and if it is hard and you have a bad time, that's normal, because getting good at something requires effort. But you may have good times when something clicks and when you finish a project, etc.

>>215769
And btw good post.

>>215752
retard

>>215769
>Satisfaction is not the goal of life, it's the carrot used to keep life moving.
This. It's an irrational trick, a carrot just like chasing pussy or validation.

>>215835
>>215769
>>Satisfaction is not the goal of life, it's the carrot used to keep life moving.
What is the difference? Goals themselves are like carrots.

raw carrot salad is an excellent breakfast for a wizard

>>215856
peaty as fuck

>>215855
I agree. Even if you accomplish everything you ever wanted, you still get satisfaction every day from looking at a perfect home, or perfect garden, or perferct art collection, or whatever you pursued in the first place.

At some point, it can be the only thing keeping you alive. Knowing how awful, grimy, horrible and scary life can be, yet you are surrounded by all that beauty.

The carrot dangled in front of you itself becomes the goal of life. You achieve it, and then it brings you perpetual happiness.
Not everyone is constantly looking for improvements or unhappy with what they have.

Some people achieve total happiness once all their goals and biological imperatives are satisfied.
Think a 65 year old who already has several grandchildren, a large well decorated home and a pension that allows them to eat anything they want and do anything they want.

The carrots, once obtained, become the source of permanent happiness.
How unfortunate it is then, that most people only achieve this tranquility at an age like 50, 60+.

You need way too much money in this world to reach that kind of happiness as a young person.
Asceticism, stoicism and being content with little doesn't really work in a western money based society where you can literally die from cold if you don't have your finances in order.

And having to wageslave away for that shelter alone is enough to make life feel like complete shit.
In conclusion, countries with neetbucks are heaven.
Having neetbucks is the same as being born into a billionaire family where someone hands you out over a thousand dollars each month just for existing.

>>215858
Neetbux summed up over a lifetime is literally millions of dollars post-tax, low risk, inflation-resistant

>>215858
Everything you said except the last paragraph only applies to normalfags.
I couldn't care less about a "perfect home", "perfect garden", "perfect art collection".

>>215750
Difference between the slums and aristocrats and philosophers is mental capacity. Otherwise suffering and life is pointless and happy machine is best suited.

Just take meds, they will reduce your suffering

>>215750
>I wonder if I should stop giving individual suffering so much importance and see myself as a tiny part in a big mechanism.
Why so into such double cuckery.
> I wonder if I am overthinking pain when it's just a mechanism we evolved to control our behavior.
to LET OTHERS control you, you mean?
>We with our finite time on a planet of finite resources must all suffer at some point for something we want, and in obtaining it we must impose suffering on to other beings.

Delete this entire pile of rubbish al-dready for goodness sake