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 No.54341[View All]

I think there is just something “magical” about old games, like someone’s great ideas put in to the limitations of a early 2000s game engine that was handcrafted by a passionate nerd. I think limitations and those unique oversights/bugs were really what spawned great games.

These days it’s just like every single game is extremely high fidelity. We have more than enough resources to throw at anything now, there are almost no limitations, things are homogenized, most everything is running in Unreal or Unity engine.

It feels almost like the frontier of gaming is over, all that’s left is businessmen producing calculated slop over and over again, sequels on sequels. Devs these days aren’t building their dreams, they’re just building a paycheck.

What do you think? Was old really better or is it nostalgia
221 posts and 53 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.


Listen you said that you don’t need sound or graphics, just wire frame. And then you proceed to show how gameplay is enhanced by adding stylized flair so a move is recognizable. So tell me, do graphics and sound matter or not?


I never said no sound or graphics, to directly quote myself (which you also did at one point in green text) "wire frames for models, the dialog removed, and no music plays". Sound cues that notify the player of what is happening is extremely important to gameplay, If you want to go back to old times, classic Doom's enemies let out a noise when they are alarmed to you, each one has a different sound. In death each enemy plays a sound, animations too, to signify an attack or again to show when dead. When enemies teleport in they use a sound which is extremely important for letting the player why and where enemies are coming from. These aspects ARE gameplay. What is NOT gameplay is irrelevant narrative, irrelevant music, and artstyles that don't serve any purpose beyond to look pretty.


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I did find some enjoy enjoyment out of Stanley Parable just like the other narrative/artstyle games I mentioned before, it has a hilarious narration where the "narrative" reacts to what YOU do as a player. HOWEVER, its still just sort of like a comedy movie, a one trick pony where you just walk around and listen to someone talk. I can't reasonably call it a great game, even if it was one of the best "walking simulators" I played. I'm glad you also gave these types of games a shot, so often I see people dismiss them, but without playing them for themselves. Of course these types who don't plays are always hyperbolic about how dreadful some games are, so I appreciate someone who tried them out himself even if they are a "gameplay first" person.

I do understand people not liking the "niggers and trannies" aka the "wokeness", its just I don't get making the entire criticism about a game on it being "pozzed" or "woke". Like yeah sure you didn't like the story or whatever, but if the gameplay is good then who the hell cares? I mean hell the story in most games is straight up awful even when they aren't "woke", Ninja Gaiden is just flat out stupid in every single scene. At one point you get this completely serious cutscene where Ryu appears to just stare at some chick's breasts the entire time and then fucks off transforming into a bird after saying "its over", its pure unintentional comedy gold.

Nu-doom is soooo old school philosophy, its a very intense game and extremely "clicky" apm stuff, but if your into that adhd fps sort of thing like me, not much else is going to top it. Feels like every graphic, every sound, every animation, its all there to help you play the game. The GDC talks about Doom 2016 are a fun watch even if you don't like the games. Allot of cool stuff about their token system for attacks and making sure enemies stay out in the open for you to shoot in order to keep it fast paced and arcadey. The devs who made it are some real gamers for sure.

You are right about arguments not ending nicely in most cases, but I kind of like using them to soundboard my own thoughts sometimes or just to maybe see someone else's views. Of course who knows, sometimes people admit to being wrong once in a blue moon, I've done it before, but it is a hard thing to do I'll admit from first hand.


>I do understand people not liking the "niggers and trannies" aka the "wokeness", its just I don't get making the entire criticism about a game on it being "pozzed" or "woke". Like yeah sure you didn't like the story or whatever, but if the gameplay is good then who the hell cares?
Because unlike you who has no backbone, I don't like being spat on by hostile devs who add intentionally unappealing characters to a game or remove sexy bitches because to do otherwise would be "objectifying" succubi (feminist rhetoric that simply means men shouldnt enjoy themselves - "woke" just means feminist). Before you insinuate I play games to jack off and not play them, nice try, it's actually about the principle, something a "dude gameplay is the only thing that matters bro!!11!!" disingenuous smugtard wouldn't understand. Implying character design doesn't matter, implying people don't play games to enjoy embodying a cool character.

>I mean hell the story in most games is straight up awful even when they aren't "woke", Ninja Gaiden is just flat out stupid in every single scene. At one point you get this completely serious cutscene where Ryu appears to just stare at some chick's breasts the entire time and then fucks off transforming into a bird after saying "its over", its pure unintentional comedy gold.

Yes because it's not about the story as I explained in my first post, here you just highlighted why older games were better, it's pure and unadulterated and apologetically appeals to the male audience (cool ninjas, dumb jokes and boobies), untouched by the bad faith actors who now infest the industry. The intent behind creative decisions matters in the same way I'm not going to eat food I know the chef has spat in, apparently you would though because it's only the taste that matters amirite.


I didn’t mention woke at all. I just think you can’t have a video game with nothing but gameplay. We’d call that a board game.

Music is a sound cue too, for example the detected theme in MGS. You can’t separate sound design and music, nor can you separate graphic design from the game play. Pong is really as gameplay purist as it gets, and even then it has little sound cues whenever you hit the ball that are entirely not needed for the gameplay to function.


>the detected theme in MGS
You already have the sound cue for that, its rather famous actually. Music holds no real place in regards to gameplay, the closest it gets is with rhythm games. Even still, often times rhythm games notes have barely anything to do with what music is being played.

Graphic design can be separate from gameplay, and in fact graphics often detracts from it. A complaint I often have about fps games are explosions covering up the screen because their graphics are too extravagant and linger for too long. Serious Sam 3 is a perfect example of this, where a c4 explosion is practically a smoke grenade with how ridiculous the explosion particle are. Another example of graphics detracting from gameplay is Turbo Ultrakill, its so hard to see enemies the devs actually had to add an option to outline enemies and its STILL easy to miss them.

Sound cues are part of gameplay, pong's hit confirmation sound is teaching you the timing for when hitboxes collide. The game survives without its existence, but so would it survive is half your controllable box that you slide around was invisible and the ball would skip frames of its animation to where its going. All of these things exist to create gameplay and give information to the player, cue are extremely important in all forms they come, and humans actually react to sound faster than visuals. The average reaction time for humans is 0.25 seconds to a visual stimulus, 0.17 for an audio stimulus, and 0.15 seconds for a touch stimulus.


Not even worth a response. End yourself polnigger.


The dilemma we seem to have is that you include things in gameplay that I consider distinct from it.


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Think about it like this, in an FPS game how can you know where an enemy is if its not in your limited fov? The player needs indication for where enemies are and even jacked up to 120 fov, you don't even have half the possible area around you visible. So the gameplay literally requires sound in order to function. Serious Sam games are incredible at this aspect actually, very often you are simply in a large area with enemies streaming in from all sides, so its very important that the distinct clopping of a kleer exists so you know what side and how far away each one is. Its a shame so many FPS designers don't even recognize how important it is to gameplay and often don't even bother with footstep noises at all.

I would argue the dilemma is that you want to argue from an extreme reductionist angle that for instance you can "play games" by simply typing out 1's and 0's and thus gameplay is nothing but that, which to you justifies the existence and promotion of useless additive things such as narratives that the player has no effect over. Personally I think your concern is more focused on making my stance invalid by speaking in absurd manners as a counterpoint, then actually having a coherent take about gameplay or what matters in a game.


Yeah because you don't have one because you're simply on the other side of the /v/etard spectrum you hate so much, no better than the people you mock, dumb cunt.

>correctly identify why modern games are ugly and lame

>"noooooo u cant talk about anything other than gameplay because i have no aesthetic sensibilities and see everything in binary 101110 digits and project that onto people with actual standards go back to pol aaaaaa"


I just don't get why you think music and graphics are so unnecessary when you very clearly have an appreciation for their role in game play. Yeah story usually sucks so I don't really care about that, but music and art make miles of difference. Take katamari for example. the game play is super simple, and would honestly be a pretty mediocre game if you were just a ball rolling up indistinct cubes. But the upbeat music, the little bings when you pick stuff up, the silly graphics with prince and the king, all make it so much more than just snowball simulator.

Even the scene you posted here in Journey >>58337 is made ten times better with the music that sounds fun and light as you ski down the sand with the carpet creatures.

To go back to what you said though, for example sound in an FPS isn't necessary, you could have those garbage fire indicators or enemy radar, but like you said people react faster to sound. You could design a game with only gameplay, but it seriously would detract from it. Gameplay is usually in service of the idea of the game. Imagine if ninja gaiden was a puzzle game instead or something, it would be completely incongruous with the rest of its design.


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Very good post, and that confusion about what makes a game good is too true. The challenge of a game is a must, over time I realized that fail-states are integral to video games themselves, even if that fail state is not directly punishing, there must be some degree of mastery available to attain over the game. Its why I think games like CYOA or old school rpgs are still real games, simply because the story/dialog is in fact important and leads to fail states. If you mash through dialog in those games, what happens? Well you probably end up saying something in the game that causes some troll or evil wizard to come instantly kill you. Alternatively you end up with no idea what to do because your quest's goals were explained in that very dialog.

Speaking of scavenger hunts, have you ever seen this game called Hidden Folks? I recently played it because I used to complete Where's Waldo books and other scavenger hunt type books. Really was like a video format of them, just purely looking for certain objects over and over again. Obviously as we both agree, its not a "great" game, but it was a kick in the ol nostalgia bone for sure.


>I just don't get why you think music and graphics are so unnecessary when you very clearly have an appreciation for their role in game play.
Because they don't have one, music especially is the most superfluous of all. Often times it actually gets in the way of sound cues, and it could be replaced by any music of your choice with no effect on the gameplay what so ever. I already brought up before how graphics can be an active detriment too. Story falls into the same two categories, it (generally speaking, depending on the game) could be removed with no effect on the gameplay.

That scene is journey is visually interesting, and musically is whatever, but its not a good video game scene. The gameplay is boring and uninteresting and the second you remove its pretty pointless background the "game" would be universally declared bad. It has more in common with movies - motion pictures, than it does with games.

>To go back to what you said though, for example sound in an FPS isn't necessary, you could have those garbage fire indicators or enemy radar, but like you said people react faster to sound. You could design a game with only gameplay, but it seriously would detract from it.

You could replace everything with typing out 1's and 0's though, like I said, the problem is that you are more concerned with attacking my stance than having any reasonable one yourself. If something serves a gameplay function, then its part of gameplay. Music holds no basically almost no purpose in gameplay, its not gameplay. Pretty backgrounds are quiet literally pointless, they aren't gameplay. Stories the vast majority of time hold nothing of gameplay value, its not gameplay. I think my stance is simple to explain and reasonable to defend, games like Journey are fun to watch, but the gameplay just isn't there, its not a good game.


>music serves no gameplay purpose
We just went over how music is a sound cue. In monster hunter for example the music changes based on what you’re hunting, whether it has noticed you, or whether it’s enraged. And yeah MGS has the detection sound but the detected music is just as recognizable and serves the exact same function were the cue not there. Any music or graphics that get in the way of gameplay are just bad music and graphics, the same that game play without audio and visual cues would be bad gameplay. Animations are graphics, sound is music, you seem to like these things yet say they add nothing. Even a background is part of gameplay. For example the poison swamp levels in souls games immediately bring attention to the player “you will get poisoned here buckle up and bring healing”. Or the ice levels in Mario are slippery. You keep picking apart the games and saying “no only this matters” when games are sums of their parts.

You keep declaring that I’m just trying to make your stance unreasonable but I’m not even attacking you.


Disgusting and blatant samefagging all over the thread.
Stop arguing with yourself to pretend you have any kind of credibility, woketard.


Music CAN be used as a sound cue (its a very poor one and generally only used because its expected to have music at all times), but that's not what you are arguing in favor of music for. Journey's scene is not using music as a sound cue for anything. The reality when you aren't looking for exceptions, is that music in video games holds no real gameplay purpose. Even in its exceptions, its poor in its execution and having the sound cue being MUSIC instead of any other sound has no real reason besides "well we are already playing music, so we might as well use it for something". Its purpose is justified by its pre-existance.

Animations are technically graphics yes, music is technically sound yes. Are you looking for a gotcha moment or a conversation? I think we both know why I used these terms separately, you noticing I separate these terms signifies that you do.

A background is different than a foreground, having visual cues for what is poison and what is ice is good yes - because the gameplay of being poisoned and sliding is a part of the…gameplay. Having a sunset with sandy buildings in the background such as in the Journey scene, is not gameplay related. You are relating a foreground visual cue tied to gameplay, with a background that literally serves no gameplay purpose besides to look pretty. It doesn't work.

Sorry if my usage of "attacking" was offensive, but you are indeed looking to disprove my stance which is attackinge. Yet your own stance is left unattended to, where gameplay is merely 1's and 0's which is ridiculous in nature and could also technically be applied to graphics and sound as well. Keen to look for any possible ways music might pretend to be gameplay related, but praising its use in non gameplay related sections mere posts before, its what happens when you focus on disproving someone else's theory rather than crafting your own coherent one.


> Are you looking for a gotcha moment or a conversation?
No I just think we're on the same page you just don't realize it.
>Yet your own stance is left unattended to, where gameplay is merely 1's and 0's which is ridiculous in nature and could also technically be applied to graphics and sound as well.
I have no reason to diminish gameplay, I realize I sounded like I was. I mean I play video games, most people play them for the game play. I've even tried playing some games just because they had a sexy character or a mechanic I thought would be cool but they just don't hold water if the game play is no good. All I really want is for you to acknowledge a video game is more than just game play, but you seem to be saying that everything more gussied up than pacman is not only unnecessary but actively detrimental to the game.


I don't really think we are on the same page at all, you feel a connection because you misunderstood me at first and when I assume you realized I was not the ridiculous idea in your head, you felt me move closer to you. As I said since the beginning, I somewhat enjoyed my time with games like Journey, Observation, or Firewatch - but they aren't good videogames. Pretty backgrounds are pretty, graphics can be nice to look at, music is nice to listen to, stories can be fun, but they aren't gameplay and don't make a good videogame.

I did not say you diminish gameplay, only that your theories about gameplay are undercooked. I'm not too sure about what you prioritize since you mostly speak about my ideas rather than your own, only that you defended Journey's movie-like approach to games and originally suggested "games that prioritize art or storytelling above gameplay are worth playing." and that "Neither should we dismiss games that engage in contemporary issues of identity and historicity", not that I'm entirely even sure what that second quote is truly meaning to say.

>All I really want is for you to acknowledge a video game is more than just game play

Not going to happen, especially when I know what sort of thoughts are loaded and spring forth from such a statement. It relates back to why you praise that Journey scene with lacklustre gameplay while I don't.
> unnecessary
>actively detrimental to the game.
Case by case.


The journey scene was just an example.
> Neither should we dismiss games that engage in contemporary issues of identity and historicity
I’m not sure where you picked this up cause I don’t remember saying it.


An example that told a lot, yes.
Oh, you weren't the same person as >58336 then? I wish people would say when they aren't the same poster more often, or that there was a thread ID system like certain boards on 4chad have. Wizchan is ahead in a lot of ways (file types, file sizes, etc), but the ID system should be standard in every chan imo.


Oh I see now, you think >>58336 is me. I started here >>58338 cause your statement was and remains ridiculous to me. I see now that you probably though I was baiting you into admitting character in games should look one way or another, and I'm not. I just think the other artistic elements in games have more weight than you give them credit.

Yeah, honestly 8chan was pretty nice with IDs.


> I was baiting you into admitting character in games should look one way or another
I wasn't thinking that, just that I know what implications arise by stating "a video game is more than just game play". One need only look at the infamous Depression Quest, or Naughty Dog games and the rest to understand that. I'm not just being stubborn about it to spite those games, its just that innocent concessions that one might think are fine are often not just simple statements which mean nothing, and I don't need to concede something I don't believe anyways.

That statement about NG2 should be easy to swallow, afterall - the aspects I suggested could easily be taken away are things no one mentions about the game. Ninja Gaiden is not known for its musical soundtrack, its dialog/story is among some of the worst of all action games, and its artstyle is fairly lack lustre compared to its contemporaries besides a gore system (which they actually tied into the gameplay in a very unique way no other game has ever replicated). Its a game series whose legacy lives off its gameplay alone, everything else about it is inferior to its peers yet despite all of that and the numerous hardware issues (fps lag like no other on xbox, neutered enemy numbers on playstation), it still has a strong cult following to this day (me included). You have to understand that many aspects of NG2 are just stupid and yet it survives even that, throwing you into a pit of 8 ninja before teaching you basic controls is just dumb even if it is "hardcore". Its combat system is cryptic and obtuse at best and revolves around iframes, yet a player may have no idea what an iframe even is or that they should be using it. Its not to say I made the argument about music/graphics/story directly because of NG2 (I would use any game with strong gameplay), but I'm just highlighting that saying it about NG2 should have been a much easier pill to swallow.

8chan was pretty good and its a shame it got shutdown. I would make a meta thread asking for IDs, but I don't think our female admin even browses it, all she does is unban proven females multiple times because PPH>quality of posts.


> One need only look at the infamous Depression Quest, or Naughty Dog games and the rest to understand that.
I’m not saying a game doesn’t need game play, I’m saying that adding more than that is what makes a game truly great. Game play needs all the other stuff to make it a whole video game, unless it’s Tetris or minesweeper. And simple games like that are more akin to analog games like tic tac to or checkers, hence why I say games should have more than that to be video games.

Ninja gaiden is probably one of the better examples because you are correct that the game play is the strongest aspect, but contemporaries like DMC and bayonetta in my opinion are much better because they not only have top notch game play but amazing music and style that compliments the game play to a tee. Even simple games like Mario have iconic music and sound effects even though it’s about as basic a platformer as it gets.


>look at depression quest
>ID system like certain boards on 4chad have

hmm… what say you wizzies, this here trojan horse parked outside the gates is totally not suspicious at all, we let it in?


> I’m saying that adding more than that is what makes a game truly great
This is why I said we aren't on the same page, I don't think games become great because of unnecessary aspects, a game is great because the gameplay is great. I posted about Desync before, and that game is almost wire frame level models with some amateur animations and environments that are literally just random geometric shapes, absolutely fantastic game though, I put it miles above other games - above even great games like Doom 2016 that have an artstyle that people praise nonstop. Superhot is another example of a mostly utilitarian artstyle that lives of its gameplay alone, its not really my style of game, but its just an example.

DMC and Bayo could be better, but not because because of their artstyle. People might like them over NG because you have more creative options, its alot of about juggling and showing off what kind of attacks you can string together. DMC5 isn't a better game than NG because Bury The Light exists, but you could argue its a better game because DMC5 is a more creatively free action game than NG. Alternatively many people argue that DMC5 is a lesser game than NG because its actual player vs mob combat has less depth to it. Its fine to say things like this, but no action game fan is going to respect an opinion like "dmc5 is better than NG because of its story". GoW2018 isn't going to stand the test of time like NG and dmc5 have, story and graphics might impress NPC's who don't actually like games, but gameplay is what attracts the "hardcore" video gamer who love videogames for what they are.

If you are going to start rating games on things beyond gameplay, then yeah you have to take essentially non-games like Depression Quest and the rest of the cinematic movies as seriously as Tetris. The reality is that for real gamers, gameplay is all that matters, people who like things that naughty dog make are looking for a movie that pretends to be a video game. To me all the walking simulators ever made will never touch a game like NG2, its impossible because their gameplay is terrible and basically exists just to justify putting it on steam.


Okay I'm done now. Superhot and desync have strong and deliberate art styles, they are certainly not utilitarian. I'm sick of your "real gamer" bullshit too. You should really not make games your identity, cause like all things it is ephemeral and impersonal. I love video games for what they, because video games have more than just gameplay. You clearly don't because you need to ignore and strip away parts of the game.


>Superhot and desync have strong and deliberate art styles
Like what? The fresh out of unity geometric shapes artstyle? They do the best they can with the obviously shoestring budget they have, but its really not that far from wire frames and both are very utilitarian in nature. Superhot is often a game I bring up about perfect utilitarian gameplay graphics, you can't miss an enemy in that game or a usable/interact object, its lovely. Its clear where the effort went, and that was the gameplay.

>video games have more than just gameplay

Sounds more like you are looking for a movie experience then, why play video games if you aren't looking for gameplay? As I said before, GoW2018 might have a better story and graphics than DMC/NG/Bayo, but its never going to last the test of time. The gameplay isn't even awful in it, but its just not as good as those three classics and won't hold as big of a cult following of real gamers. I'm sorry if exclusionary terms like real gamer hurt you because you feel like you don't belong in that group, but that's just how it is. I don't mind gatekeeping, and I don't mind elitism, it used to be a regular thing on the internet and for any nerd hobby. When you love the medium for what it brings to the table, you want to keep its identity and culture. I don't want video games to be movies or books, I want them to be video games. If the gameplay isn't good, then the video game isn't good.


I spy actually made some awesome games back in the day.


>i spy books
premium car entertainment before i got gameboy tbh


This thread has more activity in 1 day than the board normally has in a month. I dare say it's being raided by outsiders, likely kiwi farms terminally onlines.

Graphics and music all matter to a game as much as gameplay. Resident Evil director's cut is made significantly worse because a fake death guy hit random notes and called it a sound track. It totally ruins the game because it's so comedic and awful. A game like Sinistar where the boss screams "I live again!" before attacking you is a core part of the experience and the game would be worse without it. In Dark souls 3 leaving the catacombs to see Ithrifyl is a big part of the experience and no 2D pixel based game could give the same experience. The same for the first time you see the Capital in Elden ring from inside and realize all of that is explorable. These experiences go beyond the gameplay and are considered high points in their games not for gameplay but for the experience they give.

If you say only gameplay matters you need to justify why every game isn't just 1 super refined boss fight. Surely fighting BEST BOSS EVER ten times would be better than fighting lesser enemies since it's just about the gameplay. Pacing, story and visuals don't matter so identical boss 10 times in a row would be the best game ever.. Or as Elden ring showed us, reusing the same boss even once can devalue an earlier encounter. A player thinking they found a hidden boss and beating it, feels less rewarded when that boss appears else where as a generic enemy or a clone boss. The gameplay didn't change, but the users experience and what they got out of the game changed drastically.

Playing woke games and trying to ignore the garbage politics shoved into it is like trying to eat a beef stew and ignoring the pieces of shit floating in it. You can eat round it, but it bleeds into literally every aspect of it. Nu Gears of war had shared toilets, but it was so obvious they modeled men and succubi's toilets then took out the urinal and put a sofa to fill dead space. Looking in those rooms the woke politics and lazy execution pulled me out of the world because it's so fucking stupid. A world barely surviving an apocalypse where succubi were basically baby factories and literally nothing more are not going to care about this kind of bullshit. When you play Hitman and the target is a chad stealing dykes from each other and you have to kill him you can't help but see how stupid this shit is and how it devalues the experience. The world's greatest assassin known for killing warlords, the illuminati and mafia hit men is killing… a guy dicking lesbos in a fake marriage. Who the fuck cares and why the fuck would 47 bother with such a petty target? And so 47 as a character and his world is devalued over virtue signalling about being pro-dykes.

I'm going to split this off into it's own sentence because it's a poster child of a wider problem. Game developers no longer respect what they're making. Master chief and Doom guy have unicorn outfits, 47 is defending faggots and every possible series is shoe horned into dead by daylight. When the real world leaks into fiction to the point of constant cross overs and cross promotion it all becomes a brown mess. I want Halo to take it's self seriously with the odd random fun easter egg clearly designed to get a laugh from devs. I don't want unicorn spartans fighting the ninja turtles because it's disrespectful to the universe I'm supposed to care about and me as a player. Chief doesn't care about fags or trannies, he has to care about fighting a war. Dragging other franchises or real world politics into those universes utterly fucks any sense of immersion you have. Humanity in an apocalyptic situation where they're losing more bodies than babies are being born by millions do not give a fuck about faggots. They NEED breeding and the moment you start telling me ONI care about niggers, faggots or any of that other real world garbage you destroy any credibility your universe has. Quirky side shaved sassy dyke being an elite commando or whale succubus the bomb defusing expert is a bad joke and destroys any sense of reality. It's like wrestling is fake, I can accept Hulk Hogan hitting someone with a chair and not smashing their face in. I don't have to believe everything I see is real, but I do have to have a sense of purpose in the characters I'm watching/playing and be able to understand their reactions. Virtue signalling, shoving dykes and niggers into everything and all that garbage breaks that sense of reality. You can make political games like Odd world and have the message be relatable and have good game play, even bioshock does a decent blend of politics and gameplay. But those are games where the message makes sense within the world we're exploring. They're not games where the message is shoe horned in because fag grants make you an extra few dollars and you can funnel that back into donations to child mutilation and sexual abuse charities.


>two people engaged in an argument and some others talking about a popular book they all liked as a kid
>MuSt Be ThOsE No-LiFe CwCkIfOrUm InVaDeRs RaIdInG Us
Don't expect anyone to read your textwall if you're going to open with how you don't think anyone is genuinely interested in discussing the topics at hand.


Just typical polbrain shit where anything against them is some planned evil kabal.
>Don't expect anyone to read your textwall
This is good advice I should have taken myself, entire thing was just crying about politics as usual and the single point about games was his opinion that boss fights are better than levels or fighting multiple enemies at once since he hasn't played enough games to think otherwise (clearly only played Fromsoft games).


Is just a woketard samefagging non-stop. Everyone knows that things like music and story are also important in a game along with the gameplay like if these things were separated anyway. This fake discussion was just started because there's no other way they can justify woke crap in games.


I'm the guy who was arguing that other stuff matters, there wasn't any samefagging.


previously on /r/kotakuinaction and /v/


I don't know if it's the same guy but Wizchan has changed a lot in the last few months. I drop in and out and it's either been linked on some place like Tumblr or a discord similar. Or it's being raided by trolls. Wizchan has mostly been neutral or right wing politically because it's full of image board users and /pol/ is the biggest board on any English speaking image board (I don't know how big Japanese ones). I've been coming to the site on and off for years and the amount of activity and posting style is totally alien to how it's been as long as I've been visiting.

>He posts the same argument yet again but changes the game title in the post to make it seem like it's something new.

The bait never ends


Yeah agree with basically everything written here.
t. guy you were talking to about fail states and scavenger hunts, aka person who started off this whole discussion

Its like I said before, just polbrain where everything is an evil conspiracy against them. They have now refereed to other posters as being myself twice now, one of whom completely disagrees with me and now you who has the most obvious writing style of anyone here.

Its always "woke this" or "tranny this", but notice whenever they actually speak about games its completely misinformed? Which was what set off this entire discussion, just blatant misinformation about Doom Eternal's gameplay because these polniggers don't play video games and have brain rot to such a degree they turned into NPCs (or more likely were always that way). Another example is the wall of text where one suggests that boss battles are somehow the ultimate in gameplay because all they've played is games made by Fromsoftware. These political drones don't even like video games, all they enjoy is complaining about trannies and niggers.

They attack you (and by you, I mean technically me since they love calling every poster in the thread me) with false allegations about being tumblr simply for wanting to talk about games instead of crying nonstop about politics. Its just insanity from a bunch of mentally retarded NPCs who work day and night tirelessly to shit up videogame discussion.

>I'm sure Super Hitler 2: Nigger Evisceration will release right after five more years of whining about tranny video games.

I chuckled reading this.


If you're not the same person it sure took you a while to realise the other guy was using moronic arguments.

These supposedly gameplaytards are insufferable. Just look how they won't stop defending woke games all over the place.


I'm playing RE8. Honestly it's shocking how bad it is compared to RE4. And this isn't some faggy nostalgia or whatever. I barely played and didn't particularly like RE4 when it first released probably because shooters on console are dogshit. I recently played it and found it incredibly good. RE8 is like a lazy talentless on-rails version of RE4.


The modern RE games rlly suck, RE7 felt like a shitty indoor walk simulator with quicktime event elements and RE8 is most likely the same


he fake outrages like a typical norman, so over the top. these phenotypes usually voice chat with succubi, no use in stealth posting so they're just smug taunting at this point.


The funniest part is that GoW1 was already a terrible shit game. Cover shooters were one of the dumbest fucking "innovations" in the history of gaming, literally only exist so console tards can more easily aim with their shitty useless controllers that no shooter should ever have been played on in the first place.


every point in that word doc has something wrong with it.
The first and main thing I have noticed is that he is praising the original doom as a paragon of perfection and takes what should and what should be from it.
Now to his actual points. The enemies look like that because that is the best they had at the time and he is cherrypicking screenshots with dominating lighting. In the 2016 doom you can tell each demon apart easily and you can also tell that they are demons because they also share some common traits along their differences as you would expect like their skin texture(in flesh kind of way).
Now onto the third and fourth points. He is also wrong on this for the newer game. Doom guy is way faster than the demons except in special cases like a charged pinky and in the original doom that is the best they had for enemy and player movement because of technological limitations. And the number of enemies in both doom with scales with difficulty.


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I no longer explore new games so i'm not well informed, but whatever new games reach my attention are no longer works of art. Developers seem to be dead inside and same goes for consumers. Even art is no longer art. I can feel this rot inside myself too, i don't want to share my fantasy with the world, i don't want to be genuine and novel, i don't want to put my soul into things, because one gets punished for effort, everything good gets corrupted and exploited. This starved society wants to consume my soul and i rather cast shit before it.


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The problem is that modern gaming technology is focused on distribution and accessability while using technological innovation for the sake of maximization of revenue rather than improving gameplay.

I mean think about a game like D4 where there is an incentive to hold back content so people can pay for it in the battlepass, there is a long term incentive to milk the customer instead of giving them the best features right away and saving content under development for the expansion pack. Its all about how do you slow drip feed people while paying off youtube shills to create fake opinions of the game itself.

Part in parcel I think the Internet and youtube has ruined the mystery of gaming because before the fun was about exploration and making your own builds, playing the game you wanted to play. Now everything is minmaxed to hell by autists there are apps and third party websites tracking every little fucking thing.

Theres a general anxiety that if you dont do your research and follow someone elses guide you are going to fall behind. It basically has turned gaming into an anxiety ridden chore lacking any sort of player side creativity or intuition and becomes an excercise in how well you can play the game as a spreadsheet where your goal isnt immersion or having fun but focusing entirely on how to efficiently spend your time in game getting to pre-determined goals.

The one time old blizzard made a good game that wasnt heavily monetized and was getting constant love support was Heroes of the Storm and that game they tried to pervert it and mainline the game then it just got killed all together because there was no way to force profitable microtransactions in the game.

You look at D4 as an example they want 90$ for the base fucking game and 120$ to play it early to have an advantage, I said fuck that.

The other issue is that bigger companies act as gatekeepers because they hold all the marketing money and development money to release what they want when they want. Argueably something like Last Epoch is much better than D4 but because they dont have the same budget it will take longer for it to see full release and get patch notes in so the indy developers will either have to take more time or they will have to heavily pidgeon hole themselves into niche but polished gameplay.

There is no way you are going to find a middleground of a well funded company producing good games that are funded on the basis they are good games that appeal to nerds. You look at blizzard and its very obvious it was a victim of a corporate takeover where Activision lied to them about their autonomy and then changed the internal culture of the company to the point I think you can spot in Wrath after Ulduar released when Blizzard stopped being Blizzard and HOTs was their last true game.



Theres a limited number of games that are good in the same way there are a limited amount of sports that can be popular. You only got like 5 sports people play and it can't get any better than that. Likewise there are only like 10-15 good games and you can't come up with anything new. All the best games have already been released. This is what modern gaming struggles with. They can't think of new ideas for something that hasn't already been done so they are rehashing and mixing elements of the past games and taking away the soul and replacing it with wokeshit and modern business practices. I've been playing the same exact games with a few exceptions for the past 13 years and haven't grown bored of them in the same way a person can watch or play football all their life and not get bored of it. Here are the good games of each genre.

FPS genre
Earlier CODs
Gears trilogy
Halo 3
Team fortress 2 and a few other class based shooters
Counter strike

And theres not much else in the way of shooters. I'm talking about legacy games that people play for decades. So there are plenty of other good games from the time but those are the main ones.
I'm gonna be completely honest and say i don't know enough to make a statement about other genres like RPGs but with shooters this is the case. There are also fighting games like street fighter and mortal kombat which are fossilized genres which never change. Meaning that their combat is always the same with no significant changes. If it were to evolve it would go 3d arena style but fighting game fans are the most stubborn traditionalists. I want more melee combat games but unfortunately chivalry and mordhau are niche games that only a few autists really like. Without killstreaks and gimmicks people will never appreciate those games. and competitive players already exploited them to the ground.


which street fighter game is your gif from?


Older games were worse but older communities were better, for a variety of reasons, from less big sponsor monetization (a la e-sports), higher barrier of entry both technical and finantial, and there being less people overall, which led to closer communities, servers and so on.
Also I dont know how to articulate this but people were less afraid of being part of something. People in somethingawful or forechan or whatever other forum made SA or forechan guilds, servers, maps, mods,… This never happens anymore, and when it happens its actively mocked because its considered "reddit" to be part of a community.
There's never going to be another 4chan mario kart tf2 map, its a historical artifact.


I often times like to fantasize what it would be like to travel back in time to, like, 2006 or 1994. Really, nothing much has changed except for entertainment and electronics. I would more than likely be terribly bored in 1994 with no internet, no computers, no cellphones, nothing portable like a Gameboy back then for me either, and the only games I had to play were platformers like Super Mario World, Sonic, and Star Wars.

2006, however, would be a somewhat different story. I had two PCs and a cellphone with internet and Tetris. I would still miss a lot. I sold the last of my consoles (Playstation 1 and N64) around 2003 and didn't have any consoles of my own again until I got myself a PS3 in 2011 and a PS4 in 2016. Since my PCs were pretty much always outdated; I was stuck playing custom maps like on Starcraft Brood War and Warcraft 3 and various mods for Half-Life 1 and 2 for many years.

You know what I would've loved playing back in 2006? No Man's Sky. The closest I had to No Man's Sky back in 2006 was probably Wurm Online and promises by Maxis and Will Wright about Spore. I mean, sure, No Man's Sky was a piece of crap in 2018. But back in 2006? That game would've been incredible.

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