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 No.54341[View All]

I think there is just something “magical” about old games, like someone’s great ideas put in to the limitations of a early 2000s game engine that was handcrafted by a passionate nerd. I think limitations and those unique oversights/bugs were really what spawned great games.

These days it’s just like every single game is extremely high fidelity. We have more than enough resources to throw at anything now, there are almost no limitations, things are homogenized, most everything is running in Unreal or Unity engine.

It feels almost like the frontier of gaming is over, all that’s left is businessmen producing calculated slop over and over again, sequels on sequels. Devs these days aren’t building their dreams, they’re just building a paycheck.

What do you think? Was old really better or is it nostalgia
221 posts and 53 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.


I don't think the other poster will ever admit that they are wrong. I agree that games should be about gameplay. I have been playing them since there was no pretense of a "driving story." Plenty of Atari and NES games are still fun now yet they have the most basic story (e.g. man saves wet hole) or none at all (Pong). I can say that things like Super Mario Bros, Space Invaders and Metal Slug are much more memorable than walking simulators like Stanley's Parable, Telltale's The Walking Dead (though I will say I do enjoy Sam and Max, although do not consider them good in the sense of being labeled games) and Gone Home.
There is plenty more I want to say, but I think a lot of it is too disjointed to organize at the moment. However, I will say that games like nu-Doom and Death Loop do look enjoyable enough, even if stylistic changes and the niggers were off-putting. I have played plenty of games with "progressive" characters (you get certain flavors of these from Japan even…). I think the argument is stupid to the core considering that nerd spaces have always had a progressive slant to them, even if there are more niggers and faggots nowadays.
Anyway, I'm not sure that I want to engage with this argument much more than to say that I agree with you. You can keep it up and I won't judge you, but I don't think it's ever going to resolve nicely. Someone will just fizzle out or the thread will hit bump limit, neither of which actually matter to quality of rhetoric. People will waste their time crying about nigger tranny avatars in games and it won't have an effect on gameplay (the only thing that truly matters) one way or another.


>And all those things like animations and sound cues aren't gameplay.
Thats literally gameplay, you can't have a 3d action game without 3d hitboxes and 3d animations for those hitboxes. Making these animations recognizable to players is part of good gameplay.
>and yes RTS could easily be simulated on excel
No it literally couldn't, an excel sheet has no 2d space. How can you kite enemies in real time on a spreadsheet? Its illogical. I understand you really want this point to work, but it doesn't function for anything that isn't D&D or some other turn based pure rpg.
>they just aren't as hardcore a gamer
I didn't say you weren't a hardcore gamer, I said you haven't thought about this topic enough. Which is clear when you immediately rush in to post about how RTS can be played in an excel sheet or that 3d action games don't need animations to convey gameplay. I just suggested to take your time and argue with yourself about your ideas before you hit post.


Listen you said that you don’t need sound or graphics, just wire frame. And then you proceed to show how gameplay is enhanced by adding stylized flair so a move is recognizable. So tell me, do graphics and sound matter or not?


>graphics can be used to signify what is happening
>huhuhuh, wow, this totally relates back to my poltard interjection!!!
…yet woke shit graphics has no inherent impact upon gameplay. keep graspin' little dude 😎👍


I never said no sound or graphics, to directly quote myself (which you also did at one point in green text) "wire frames for models, the dialog removed, and no music plays". Sound cues that notify the player of what is happening is extremely important to gameplay, If you want to go back to old times, classic Doom's enemies let out a noise when they are alarmed to you, each one has a different sound. In death each enemy plays a sound, animations too, to signify an attack or again to show when dead. When enemies teleport in they use a sound which is extremely important for letting the player why and where enemies are coming from. These aspects ARE gameplay. What is NOT gameplay is irrelevant narrative, irrelevant music, and artstyles that don't serve any purpose beyond to look pretty.


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I did find some enjoy enjoyment out of Stanley Parable just like the other narrative/artstyle games I mentioned before, it has a hilarious narration where the "narrative" reacts to what YOU do as a player. HOWEVER, its still just sort of like a comedy movie, a one trick pony where you just walk around and listen to someone talk. I can't reasonably call it a great game, even if it was one of the best "walking simulators" I played. I'm glad you also gave these types of games a shot, so often I see people dismiss them, but without playing them for themselves. Of course these types who don't plays are always hyperbolic about how dreadful some games are, so I appreciate someone who tried them out himself even if they are a "gameplay first" person.

I do understand people not liking the "niggers and trannies" aka the "wokeness", its just I don't get making the entire criticism about a game on it being "pozzed" or "woke". Like yeah sure you didn't like the story or whatever, but if the gameplay is good then who the hell cares? I mean hell the story in most games is straight up awful even when they aren't "woke", Ninja Gaiden is just flat out stupid in every single scene. At one point you get this completely serious cutscene where Ryu appears to just stare at some chick's breasts the entire time and then fucks off transforming into a bird after saying "its over", its pure unintentional comedy gold.

Nu-doom is soooo old school philosophy, its a very intense game and extremely "clicky" apm stuff, but if your into that adhd fps sort of thing like me, not much else is going to top it. Feels like every graphic, every sound, every animation, its all there to help you play the game. The GDC talks about Doom 2016 are a fun watch even if you don't like the games. Allot of cool stuff about their token system for attacks and making sure enemies stay out in the open for you to shoot in order to keep it fast paced and arcadey. The devs who made it are some real gamers for sure.

You are right about arguments not ending nicely in most cases, but I kind of like using them to soundboard my own thoughts sometimes or just to maybe see someone else's views. Of course who knows, sometimes people admit to being wrong once in a blue moon, I've done it before, but it is a hard thing to do I'll admit from first hand.


Only thing I feel that I need to add is that I don't necessarily hate walking simulators and I do think Stanley's Parable was incredible (for its time) even if I consider it as one. I also love a lot of old point-and-click games, which are just as much not-really-games either the same way walking sims aren't. This isn't even a new discussion (not saying you are advocating either way and with no foreknowledge) lol, people have been arguing what makes a game for years, but I am firmly in the camp that it has to be something enjoyably repetitive and somewhat challenging.
How many people are going to play through Stanley's Parable compared to how many will do the same for Majora's Mask? I presume very, very few (The amount of speedcuck competition could also correlate to what makes a game). Many pointer games are just a scavenger hunt to reach the next dialogue and Telltale TWD is just picking different words to hear new dialogue in the sequels. So, there obviously is a hint of challenge in these forms of media. Yet, I have strong reservations about calling them games, and that obviously extends to calling them "good" games, but I don't necessarily mean to say they are bad experiences. I've even clicked through a couple VNs that I didn't end up hating. I can say if a game isn't fun to play, then it better damn well have something else going for it. In the end (it doesn't even matter), it still doesn't make it good as a game even if it's enjoyable otherwise.


>I do understand people not liking the "niggers and trannies" aka the "wokeness", its just I don't get making the entire criticism about a game on it being "pozzed" or "woke". Like yeah sure you didn't like the story or whatever, but if the gameplay is good then who the hell cares?
Because unlike you who has no backbone, I don't like being spat on by hostile devs who add intentionally unappealing characters to a game or remove sexy bitches because to do otherwise would be "objectifying" succubi (feminist rhetoric that simply means men shouldnt enjoy themselves - "woke" just means feminist). Before you insinuate I play games to jack off and not play them, nice try, it's actually about the principle, something a "dude gameplay is the only thing that matters bro!!11!!" disingenuous smugtard wouldn't understand. Implying character design doesn't matter, implying people don't play games to enjoy embodying a cool character.

>I mean hell the story in most games is straight up awful even when they aren't "woke", Ninja Gaiden is just flat out stupid in every single scene. At one point you get this completely serious cutscene where Ryu appears to just stare at some chick's breasts the entire time and then fucks off transforming into a bird after saying "its over", its pure unintentional comedy gold.

Yes because it's not about the story as I explained in my first post, here you just highlighted why older games were better, it's pure and unadulterated and apologetically appeals to the male audience (cool ninjas, dumb jokes and boobies), untouched by the bad faith actors who now infest the industry. The intent behind creative decisions matters in the same way I'm not going to eat food I know the chef has spat in, apparently you would though because it's only the taste that matters amirite.


I didn’t mention woke at all. I just think you can’t have a video game with nothing but gameplay. We’d call that a board game.

Music is a sound cue too, for example the detected theme in MGS. You can’t separate sound design and music, nor can you separate graphic design from the game play. Pong is really as gameplay purist as it gets, and even then it has little sound cues whenever you hit the ball that are entirely not needed for the gameplay to function.


>the detected theme in MGS
You already have the sound cue for that, its rather famous actually. Music holds no real place in regards to gameplay, the closest it gets is with rhythm games. Even still, often times rhythm games notes have barely anything to do with what music is being played.

Graphic design can be separate from gameplay, and in fact graphics often detracts from it. A complaint I often have about fps games are explosions covering up the screen because their graphics are too extravagant and linger for too long. Serious Sam 3 is a perfect example of this, where a c4 explosion is practically a smoke grenade with how ridiculous the explosion particle are. Another example of graphics detracting from gameplay is Turbo Ultrakill, its so hard to see enemies the devs actually had to add an option to outline enemies and its STILL easy to miss them.

Sound cues are part of gameplay, pong's hit confirmation sound is teaching you the timing for when hitboxes collide. The game survives without its existence, but so would it survive is half your controllable box that you slide around was invisible and the ball would skip frames of its animation to where its going. All of these things exist to create gameplay and give information to the player, cue are extremely important in all forms they come, and humans actually react to sound faster than visuals. The average reaction time for humans is 0.25 seconds to a visual stimulus, 0.17 for an audio stimulus, and 0.15 seconds for a touch stimulus.


Not even worth a response. End yourself polnigger.


The dilemma we seem to have is that you include things in gameplay that I consider distinct from it.


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Think about it like this, in an FPS game how can you know where an enemy is if its not in your limited fov? The player needs indication for where enemies are and even jacked up to 120 fov, you don't even have half the possible area around you visible. So the gameplay literally requires sound in order to function. Serious Sam games are incredible at this aspect actually, very often you are simply in a large area with enemies streaming in from all sides, so its very important that the distinct clopping of a kleer exists so you know what side and how far away each one is. Its a shame so many FPS designers don't even recognize how important it is to gameplay and often don't even bother with footstep noises at all.

I would argue the dilemma is that you want to argue from an extreme reductionist angle that for instance you can "play games" by simply typing out 1's and 0's and thus gameplay is nothing but that, which to you justifies the existence and promotion of useless additive things such as narratives that the player has no effect over. Personally I think your concern is more focused on making my stance invalid by speaking in absurd manners as a counterpoint, then actually having a coherent take about gameplay or what matters in a game.


Yeah because you don't have one because you're simply on the other side of the /v/etard spectrum you hate so much, no better than the people you mock, dumb cunt.

>correctly identify why modern games are ugly and lame

>"noooooo u cant talk about anything other than gameplay because i have no aesthetic sensibilities and see everything in binary 101110 digits and project that onto people with actual standards go back to pol aaaaaa"


I just don't get why you think music and graphics are so unnecessary when you very clearly have an appreciation for their role in game play. Yeah story usually sucks so I don't really care about that, but music and art make miles of difference. Take katamari for example. the game play is super simple, and would honestly be a pretty mediocre game if you were just a ball rolling up indistinct cubes. But the upbeat music, the little bings when you pick stuff up, the silly graphics with prince and the king, all make it so much more than just snowball simulator.

Even the scene you posted here in Journey >>58337 is made ten times better with the music that sounds fun and light as you ski down the sand with the carpet creatures.

To go back to what you said though, for example sound in an FPS isn't necessary, you could have those garbage fire indicators or enemy radar, but like you said people react faster to sound. You could design a game with only gameplay, but it seriously would detract from it. Gameplay is usually in service of the idea of the game. Imagine if ninja gaiden was a puzzle game instead or something, it would be completely incongruous with the rest of its design.


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Very good post, and that confusion about what makes a game good is too true. The challenge of a game is a must, over time I realized that fail-states are integral to video games themselves, even if that fail state is not directly punishing, there must be some degree of mastery available to attain over the game. Its why I think games like CYOA or old school rpgs are still real games, simply because the story/dialog is in fact important and leads to fail states. If you mash through dialog in those games, what happens? Well you probably end up saying something in the game that causes some troll or evil wizard to come instantly kill you. Alternatively you end up with no idea what to do because your quest's goals were explained in that very dialog.

Speaking of scavenger hunts, have you ever seen this game called Hidden Folks? I recently played it because I used to complete Where's Waldo books and other scavenger hunt type books. Really was like a video format of them, just purely looking for certain objects over and over again. Obviously as we both agree, its not a "great" game, but it was a kick in the ol nostalgia bone for sure.


>I just don't get why you think music and graphics are so unnecessary when you very clearly have an appreciation for their role in game play.
Because they don't have one, music especially is the most superfluous of all. Often times it actually gets in the way of sound cues, and it could be replaced by any music of your choice with no effect on the gameplay what so ever. I already brought up before how graphics can be an active detriment too. Story falls into the same two categories, it (generally speaking, depending on the game) could be removed with no effect on the gameplay.

That scene is journey is visually interesting, and musically is whatever, but its not a good video game scene. The gameplay is boring and uninteresting and the second you remove its pretty pointless background the "game" would be universally declared bad. It has more in common with movies - motion pictures, than it does with games.

>To go back to what you said though, for example sound in an FPS isn't necessary, you could have those garbage fire indicators or enemy radar, but like you said people react faster to sound. You could design a game with only gameplay, but it seriously would detract from it.

You could replace everything with typing out 1's and 0's though, like I said, the problem is that you are more concerned with attacking my stance than having any reasonable one yourself. If something serves a gameplay function, then its part of gameplay. Music holds no basically almost no purpose in gameplay, its not gameplay. Pretty backgrounds are quiet literally pointless, they aren't gameplay. Stories the vast majority of time hold nothing of gameplay value, its not gameplay. I think my stance is simple to explain and reasonable to defend, games like Journey are fun to watch, but the gameplay just isn't there, its not a good game.


>music serves no gameplay purpose
We just went over how music is a sound cue. In monster hunter for example the music changes based on what you’re hunting, whether it has noticed you, or whether it’s enraged. And yeah MGS has the detection sound but the detected music is just as recognizable and serves the exact same function were the cue not there. Any music or graphics that get in the way of gameplay are just bad music and graphics, the same that game play without audio and visual cues would be bad gameplay. Animations are graphics, sound is music, you seem to like these things yet say they add nothing. Even a background is part of gameplay. For example the poison swamp levels in souls games immediately bring attention to the player “you will get poisoned here buckle up and bring healing”. Or the ice levels in Mario are slippery. You keep picking apart the games and saying “no only this matters” when games are sums of their parts.

You keep declaring that I’m just trying to make your stance unreasonable but I’m not even attacking you.


Disgusting and blatant samefagging all over the thread.
Stop arguing with yourself to pretend you have any kind of credibility, woketard.


Music CAN be used as a sound cue (its a very poor one and generally only used because its expected to have music at all times), but that's not what you are arguing in favor of music for. Journey's scene is not using music as a sound cue for anything. The reality when you aren't looking for exceptions, is that music in video games holds no real gameplay purpose. Even in its exceptions, its poor in its execution and having the sound cue being MUSIC instead of any other sound has no real reason besides "well we are already playing music, so we might as well use it for something". Its purpose is justified by its pre-existance.

Animations are technically graphics yes, music is technically sound yes. Are you looking for a gotcha moment or a conversation? I think we both know why I used these terms separately, you noticing I separate these terms signifies that you do.

A background is different than a foreground, having visual cues for what is poison and what is ice is good yes - because the gameplay of being poisoned and sliding is a part of the…gameplay. Having a sunset with sandy buildings in the background such as in the Journey scene, is not gameplay related. You are relating a foreground visual cue tied to gameplay, with a background that literally serves no gameplay purpose besides to look pretty. It doesn't work.

Sorry if my usage of "attacking" was offensive, but you are indeed looking to disprove my stance which is attackinge. Yet your own stance is left unattended to, where gameplay is merely 1's and 0's which is ridiculous in nature and could also technically be applied to graphics and sound as well. Keen to look for any possible ways music might pretend to be gameplay related, but praising its use in non gameplay related sections mere posts before, its what happens when you focus on disproving someone else's theory rather than crafting your own coherent one.


> Are you looking for a gotcha moment or a conversation?
No I just think we're on the same page you just don't realize it.
>Yet your own stance is left unattended to, where gameplay is merely 1's and 0's which is ridiculous in nature and could also technically be applied to graphics and sound as well.
I have no reason to diminish gameplay, I realize I sounded like I was. I mean I play video games, most people play them for the game play. I've even tried playing some games just because they had a sexy character or a mechanic I thought would be cool but they just don't hold water if the game play is no good. All I really want is for you to acknowledge a video game is more than just game play, but you seem to be saying that everything more gussied up than pacman is not only unnecessary but actively detrimental to the game.


I don't really think we are on the same page at all, you feel a connection because you misunderstood me at first and when I assume you realized I was not the ridiculous idea in your head, you felt me move closer to you. As I said since the beginning, I somewhat enjoyed my time with games like Journey, Observation, or Firewatch - but they aren't good videogames. Pretty backgrounds are pretty, graphics can be nice to look at, music is nice to listen to, stories can be fun, but they aren't gameplay and don't make a good videogame.

I did not say you diminish gameplay, only that your theories about gameplay are undercooked. I'm not too sure about what you prioritize since you mostly speak about my ideas rather than your own, only that you defended Journey's movie-like approach to games and originally suggested "games that prioritize art or storytelling above gameplay are worth playing." and that "Neither should we dismiss games that engage in contemporary issues of identity and historicity", not that I'm entirely even sure what that second quote is truly meaning to say.

>All I really want is for you to acknowledge a video game is more than just game play

Not going to happen, especially when I know what sort of thoughts are loaded and spring forth from such a statement. It relates back to why you praise that Journey scene with lacklustre gameplay while I don't.
> unnecessary
>actively detrimental to the game.
Case by case.


The journey scene was just an example.
> Neither should we dismiss games that engage in contemporary issues of identity and historicity
I’m not sure where you picked this up cause I don’t remember saying it.


An example that told a lot, yes.
Oh, you weren't the same person as >58336 then? I wish people would say when they aren't the same poster more often, or that there was a thread ID system like certain boards on 4chad have. Wizchan is ahead in a lot of ways (file types, file sizes, etc), but the ID system should be standard in every chan imo.


Oh I see now, you think >>58336 is me. I started here >>58338 cause your statement was and remains ridiculous to me. I see now that you probably though I was baiting you into admitting character in games should look one way or another, and I'm not. I just think the other artistic elements in games have more weight than you give them credit.

Yeah, honestly 8chan was pretty nice with IDs.


> I was baiting you into admitting character in games should look one way or another
I wasn't thinking that, just that I know what implications arise by stating "a video game is more than just game play". One need only look at the infamous Depression Quest, or Naughty Dog games and the rest to understand that. I'm not just being stubborn about it to spite those games, its just that innocent concessions that one might think are fine are often not just simple statements which mean nothing, and I don't need to concede something I don't believe anyways.

That statement about NG2 should be easy to swallow, afterall - the aspects I suggested could easily be taken away are things no one mentions about the game. Ninja Gaiden is not known for its musical soundtrack, its dialog/story is among some of the worst of all action games, and its artstyle is fairly lack lustre compared to its contemporaries besides a gore system (which they actually tied into the gameplay in a very unique way no other game has ever replicated). Its a game series whose legacy lives off its gameplay alone, everything else about it is inferior to its peers yet despite all of that and the numerous hardware issues (fps lag like no other on xbox, neutered enemy numbers on playstation), it still has a strong cult following to this day (me included). You have to understand that many aspects of NG2 are just stupid and yet it survives even that, throwing you into a pit of 8 ninja before teaching you basic controls is just dumb even if it is "hardcore". Its combat system is cryptic and obtuse at best and revolves around iframes, yet a player may have no idea what an iframe even is or that they should be using it. Its not to say I made the argument about music/graphics/story directly because of NG2 (I would use any game with strong gameplay), but I'm just highlighting that saying it about NG2 should have been a much easier pill to swallow.

8chan was pretty good and its a shame it got shutdown. I would make a meta thread asking for IDs, but I don't think our female admin even browses it, all she does is unban proven females multiple times because PPH>quality of posts.


> One need only look at the infamous Depression Quest, or Naughty Dog games and the rest to understand that.
I’m not saying a game doesn’t need game play, I’m saying that adding more than that is what makes a game truly great. Game play needs all the other stuff to make it a whole video game, unless it’s Tetris or minesweeper. And simple games like that are more akin to analog games like tic tac to or checkers, hence why I say games should have more than that to be video games.

Ninja gaiden is probably one of the better examples because you are correct that the game play is the strongest aspect, but contemporaries like DMC and bayonetta in my opinion are much better because they not only have top notch game play but amazing music and style that compliments the game play to a tee. Even simple games like Mario have iconic music and sound effects even though it’s about as basic a platformer as it gets.


>look at depression quest
>ID system like certain boards on 4chad have

hmm… what say you wizzies, this here trojan horse parked outside the gates is totally not suspicious at all, we let it in?


> I’m saying that adding more than that is what makes a game truly great
This is why I said we aren't on the same page, I don't think games become great because of unnecessary aspects, a game is great because the gameplay is great. I posted about Desync before, and that game is almost wire frame level models with some amateur animations and environments that are literally just random geometric shapes, absolutely fantastic game though, I put it miles above other games - above even great games like Doom 2016 that have an artstyle that people praise nonstop. Superhot is another example of a mostly utilitarian artstyle that lives of its gameplay alone, its not really my style of game, but its just an example.

DMC and Bayo could be better, but not because because of their artstyle. People might like them over NG because you have more creative options, its alot of about juggling and showing off what kind of attacks you can string together. DMC5 isn't a better game than NG because Bury The Light exists, but you could argue its a better game because DMC5 is a more creatively free action game than NG. Alternatively many people argue that DMC5 is a lesser game than NG because its actual player vs mob combat has less depth to it. Its fine to say things like this, but no action game fan is going to respect an opinion like "dmc5 is better than NG because of its story". GoW2018 isn't going to stand the test of time like NG and dmc5 have, story and graphics might impress NPC's who don't actually like games, but gameplay is what attracts the "hardcore" video gamer who love videogames for what they are.

If you are going to start rating games on things beyond gameplay, then yeah you have to take essentially non-games like Depression Quest and the rest of the cinematic movies as seriously as Tetris. The reality is that for real gamers, gameplay is all that matters, people who like things that naughty dog make are looking for a movie that pretends to be a video game. To me all the walking simulators ever made will never touch a game like NG2, its impossible because their gameplay is terrible and basically exists just to justify putting it on steam.


Okay I'm done now. Superhot and desync have strong and deliberate art styles, they are certainly not utilitarian. I'm sick of your "real gamer" bullshit too. You should really not make games your identity, cause like all things it is ephemeral and impersonal. I love video games for what they, because video games have more than just gameplay. You clearly don't because you need to ignore and strip away parts of the game.


>Superhot and desync have strong and deliberate art styles
Like what? The fresh out of unity geometric shapes artstyle? They do the best they can with the obviously shoestring budget they have, but its really not that far from wire frames and both are very utilitarian in nature. Superhot is often a game I bring up about perfect utilitarian gameplay graphics, you can't miss an enemy in that game or a usable/interact object, its lovely. Its clear where the effort went, and that was the gameplay.

>video games have more than just gameplay

Sounds more like you are looking for a movie experience then, why play video games if you aren't looking for gameplay? As I said before, GoW2018 might have a better story and graphics than DMC/NG/Bayo, but its never going to last the test of time. The gameplay isn't even awful in it, but its just not as good as those three classics and won't hold as big of a cult following of real gamers. I'm sorry if exclusionary terms like real gamer hurt you because you feel like you don't belong in that group, but that's just how it is. I don't mind gatekeeping, and I don't mind elitism, it used to be a regular thing on the internet and for any nerd hobby. When you love the medium for what it brings to the table, you want to keep its identity and culture. I don't want video games to be movies or books, I want them to be video games. If the gameplay isn't good, then the video game isn't good.


That looks cool. Waldo and I Spy books were a trip. I need to see if I still have some of those laying around. The scenes on the Christmas I Spy book were especially impressive to me for some reason.


I spy actually made some awesome games back in the day.


>i spy books
premium car entertainment before i got gameboy tbh


This thread has more activity in 1 day than the board normally has in a month. I dare say it's being raided by outsiders, likely kiwi farms terminally onlines.

Graphics and music all matter to a game as much as gameplay. Resident Evil director's cut is made significantly worse because a fake death guy hit random notes and called it a sound track. It totally ruins the game because it's so comedic and awful. A game like Sinistar where the boss screams "I live again!" before attacking you is a core part of the experience and the game would be worse without it. In Dark souls 3 leaving the catacombs to see Ithrifyl is a big part of the experience and no 2D pixel based game could give the same experience. The same for the first time you see the Capital in Elden ring from inside and realize all of that is explorable. These experiences go beyond the gameplay and are considered high points in their games not for gameplay but for the experience they give.

If you say only gameplay matters you need to justify why every game isn't just 1 super refined boss fight. Surely fighting BEST BOSS EVER ten times would be better than fighting lesser enemies since it's just about the gameplay. Pacing, story and visuals don't matter so identical boss 10 times in a row would be the best game ever.. Or as Elden ring showed us, reusing the same boss even once can devalue an earlier encounter. A player thinking they found a hidden boss and beating it, feels less rewarded when that boss appears else where as a generic enemy or a clone boss. The gameplay didn't change, but the users experience and what they got out of the game changed drastically.

Playing woke games and trying to ignore the garbage politics shoved into it is like trying to eat a beef stew and ignoring the pieces of shit floating in it. You can eat round it, but it bleeds into literally every aspect of it. Nu Gears of war had shared toilets, but it was so obvious they modeled men and succubi's toilets then took out the urinal and put a sofa to fill dead space. Looking in those rooms the woke politics and lazy execution pulled me out of the world because it's so fucking stupid. A world barely surviving an apocalypse where succubi were basically baby factories and literally nothing more are not going to care about this kind of bullshit. When you play Hitman and the target is a chad stealing dykes from each other and you have to kill him you can't help but see how stupid this shit is and how it devalues the experience. The world's greatest assassin known for killing warlords, the illuminati and mafia hit men is killing… a guy dicking lesbos in a fake marriage. Who the fuck cares and why the fuck would 47 bother with such a petty target? And so 47 as a character and his world is devalued over virtue signalling about being pro-dykes.

I'm going to split this off into it's own sentence because it's a poster child of a wider problem. Game developers no longer respect what they're making. Master chief and Doom guy have unicorn outfits, 47 is defending faggots and every possible series is shoe horned into dead by daylight. When the real world leaks into fiction to the point of constant cross overs and cross promotion it all becomes a brown mess. I want Halo to take it's self seriously with the odd random fun easter egg clearly designed to get a laugh from devs. I don't want unicorn spartans fighting the ninja turtles because it's disrespectful to the universe I'm supposed to care about and me as a player. Chief doesn't care about fags or trannies, he has to care about fighting a war. Dragging other franchises or real world politics into those universes utterly fucks any sense of immersion you have. Humanity in an apocalyptic situation where they're losing more bodies than babies are being born by millions do not give a fuck about faggots. They NEED breeding and the moment you start telling me ONI care about niggers, faggots or any of that other real world garbage you destroy any credibility your universe has. Quirky side shaved sassy dyke being an elite commando or whale succubus the bomb defusing expert is a bad joke and destroys any sense of reality. It's like wrestling is fake, I can accept Hulk Hogan hitting someone with a chair and not smashing their face in. I don't have to believe everything I see is real, but I do have to have a sense of purpose in the characters I'm watching/playing and be able to understand their reactions. Virtue signalling, shoving dykes and niggers into everything and all that garbage breaks that sense of reality. You can make political games like Odd world and have the message be relatable and have good game play, even bioshock does a decent blend of politics and gameplay. But those are games where the message makes sense within the world we're exploring. They're not games where the message is shoe horned in because fag grants make you an extra few dollars and you can funnel that back into donations to child mutilation and sexual abuse charities.


>two people engaged in an argument and some others talking about a popular book they all liked as a kid
>MuSt Be ThOsE No-LiFe CwCkIfOrUm InVaDeRs RaIdInG Us
Don't expect anyone to read your textwall if you're going to open with how you don't think anyone is genuinely interested in discussing the topics at hand.


Just typical polbrain shit where anything against them is some planned evil kabal.
>Don't expect anyone to read your textwall
This is good advice I should have taken myself, entire thing was just crying about politics as usual and the single point about games was his opinion that boss fights are better than levels or fighting multiple enemies at once since he hasn't played enough games to think otherwise (clearly only played Fromsoft games).


Is just a woketard samefagging non-stop. Everyone knows that things like music and story are also important in a game along with the gameplay like if these things were separated anyway. This fake discussion was just started because there's no other way they can justify woke crap in games.


I'm the guy who was arguing that other stuff matters, there wasn't any samefagging.


If the Saints Row reboot had good gameplay I wouldn't care about the corny ass politics. If you want games to be a springboard for your own political views, then make your own games. You can't expect late millennials and zoomers (really mostly anyone from any generation because, again, nerd spheres have always had a prog slant) to throw in quotes from McInnes or Shapiro or whoever your favorite lite-rite talking head with half-baked opinions is.
It's really not even about "justifying" woke shit. It's more that I don't care about anything else besides gameplay so long as those secondary components don't interfere with the gameplay (and no, having some rainbow-haired tranny faggot shout "ACAB" and do the niggernat fist in a cutscene has zero impact on the gameplay). Maybe you just need to reevaluate whether or not you actually like games. If a game has:
>16k infinite HD graphics
>original orchestral soundtrack jointly composed by Paul McCartney, Marty O'Donnell, John Williams and Hans Zimmer
>epic 250-hour fantasy story written by Stephen King, George R. R. Martin, Hidetaka Miyazaki, William Gibson and the skeleton of Philip K. Dick
but the gameplay sucks balls then I'm not going to play it. Here's a better analogy: caring so much about this secondary shit is like sitting through the Super Bowl just for some dumb halftime show number (or the epic commercials, as some people actually say). What graphics and sound design are supposed to do in a game is to facilitate, or at least not impede, the flow of the actual gameplay and then aurtistic embellishments can be added.


previously on /r/kotakuinaction and /v/


I don't know if it's the same guy but Wizchan has changed a lot in the last few months. I drop in and out and it's either been linked on some place like Tumblr or a discord similar. Or it's being raided by trolls. Wizchan has mostly been neutral or right wing politically because it's full of image board users and /pol/ is the biggest board on any English speaking image board (I don't know how big Japanese ones). I've been coming to the site on and off for years and the amount of activity and posting style is totally alien to how it's been as long as I've been visiting.

>He posts the same argument yet again but changes the game title in the post to make it seem like it's something new.

The bait never ends


>wow u think im a fuckin retard for caring more about politics than gameplay? ur just muh woke boogeyman!!!1
>t. retard trying to drum up consensus, yet again ignoring geekshit was always full of prog-leaning punks
Except my own political slant is that all nonwhites, LGBT freaks and race traitors should be tossed into a spike pit. I just think it's pathetic and plain retarded to care about anything besides gameplay so long as it doesn't interfere with gameplay, and I will reiterate again that having a playable nigger or tranny character doesn't inherently accomplish that.
If the tranny has bass-boosted gay moaning (if it's obnoxious enough to piss other players off then that can be entertaining too) and robs control from me every five seconds to fist itself and fondle its manboobs, then I can say that the gameplay sucks because it is being negatively impacted by the artistic choices.
Keep talking past me and heroically slaying that commie boogeyman, though. I'm sure Super Hitler 2: Nigger Evisceration will release right after five more years of whining about tranny video games.


Yeah agree with basically everything written here.
t. guy you were talking to about fail states and scavenger hunts, aka person who started off this whole discussion

Its like I said before, just polbrain where everything is an evil conspiracy against them. They have now refereed to other posters as being myself twice now, one of whom completely disagrees with me and now you who has the most obvious writing style of anyone here.

Its always "woke this" or "tranny this", but notice whenever they actually speak about games its completely misinformed? Which was what set off this entire discussion, just blatant misinformation about Doom Eternal's gameplay because these polniggers don't play video games and have brain rot to such a degree they turned into NPCs (or more likely were always that way). Another example is the wall of text where one suggests that boss battles are somehow the ultimate in gameplay because all they've played is games made by Fromsoftware. These political drones don't even like video games, all they enjoy is complaining about trannies and niggers.

They attack you (and by you, I mean technically me since they love calling every poster in the thread me) with false allegations about being tumblr simply for wanting to talk about games instead of crying nonstop about politics. Its just insanity from a bunch of mentally retarded NPCs who work day and night tirelessly to shit up videogame discussion.

>I'm sure Super Hitler 2: Nigger Evisceration will release right after five more years of whining about tranny video games.

I chuckled reading this.


If you're not the same person it sure took you a while to realise the other guy was using moronic arguments.

These supposedly gameplaytards are insufferable. Just look how they won't stop defending woke games all over the place.


Good troll. Keep it up,


I'm playing RE8. Honestly it's shocking how bad it is compared to RE4. And this isn't some faggy nostalgia or whatever. I barely played and didn't particularly like RE4 when it first released probably because shooters on console are dogshit. I recently played it and found it incredibly good. RE8 is like a lazy talentless on-rails version of RE4.


The modern RE games rlly suck, RE7 felt like a shitty indoor walk simulator with quicktime event elements and RE8 is most likely the same


he fake outrages like a typical norman, so over the top. these phenotypes usually voice chat with succubi, no use in stealth posting so they're just smug taunting at this point.


The funniest part is that GoW1 was already a terrible shit game. Cover shooters were one of the dumbest fucking "innovations" in the history of gaming, literally only exist so console tards can more easily aim with their shitty useless controllers that no shooter should ever have been played on in the first place.

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