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 No.54341[Last 50 Posts]

I think there is just something “magical” about old games, like someone’s great ideas put in to the limitations of a early 2000s game engine that was handcrafted by a passionate nerd. I think limitations and those unique oversights/bugs were really what spawned great games.

These days it’s just like every single game is extremely high fidelity. We have more than enough resources to throw at anything now, there are almost no limitations, things are homogenized, most everything is running in Unreal or Unity engine.

It feels almost like the frontier of gaming is over, all that’s left is businessmen producing calculated slop over and over again, sequels on sequels. Devs these days aren’t building their dreams, they’re just building a paycheck.

What do you think? Was old really better or is it nostalgia


I don't think old games were better, nor do I think it was nostalgia. I think old games that were good had a better chance at being found, and there was less corruption in established "games journalism" that helped this. Nowadays, you have to really search for some obscure blog to find gems in the new games that get released (e.g. https://www.accursedfarms.com/games/). There so much gold made every year, the issue is that we are only shown the shit.


Of course, the same thing happened to motion picture and literature. Eventually all media will be homogenized and exploited solely for profit and propaganda while the smaller producers are choked out and left to die. Games are more noticeable to us because of how quick the transition was. People who were alive for the first video game could be alive to see it in its(possible) final death throes. Will it come back like it did in the 80's? Maybe, but probably not. It's foolish to think that everything must be a cycle.


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>Were old games better?
Maybe nostalgia but I prefer the look of old games than the current 3dcg trash.


honestly yes, im not even that old and i prefer games before my time. Can't think of many games past 2013 that were really good.


>Were old games better?
Absolutely not.
As someone who revisits old games while still playing relatively new games I can safely say that game design has come a very long way.
Besides nostalgia the vast quality of shit and mediocore for the time games (which are practicly unplayable by modern standards) are largely forgoten and only the very cream of the crop get remembered.
Meanwhile even a competent retro style modern game in the same genera usually is far better because it applies the hard won knowledge developed over decades in game design and development, which really shows in nearly all aspects under close inspection.
Even the mediocre games of today are better then most games of 20 years ago. Great games of today blow great games of 20 years ago out of the water.


>current 3dcg trash
There have been 3dcg fighters for almost 30 years.
It is about as old as 32 bit sprites used in fighting games.


I think there's nothing wrong with admitting nostalgia is a main factor in what games you enjoy.

I've been playing Oblivion recently after maybe 10 years and I often pinpoint to myself things that make the game terrible, but also things that
surprise me and make the game fun. That's only one factor though. Like for instance, OP's pic being Counter-Strike. Simply put CS isn't as fun as
it was back in the day and that's just down to freedom. You can go into random servers at any point in time 15 years ago and it'd be a culture of
its own. There really is no comparison to the feeling of going into a server at three in the morning, chugging Mountain Dews, and laughing along
as the college aged kids on the server crack jokes, talk, and make your time in the server an experience. And at that point it's not even about the
game and no one is taking it seriously and everyone's using silly guns and falling to their death in clutch moments as a jest. It was all about fun.


yeah, that makes a lot of sense, games these days are way too serious, the teenagers now dont give a single crap about fun or anyone not in their discord clique


Sometimes I swear it’s like the world really did end in 2012.


You have to cross reference what you personally like vs hate to know that.

For example if you like alttp format you hate the newest Zelda of course.

From my perspective of liking generations 4/5/6 I hate games beyond 6 for being 'slightly better graphics with slightly easier games' and for not being able to emulate them either as I've always been poor and or neet. One reason people online would hate new games is the neet status and emulation being the issue beyond generation 6. 6 is hard enough as it is to emulate when neet.

Another example is the remake of Cavestory, it was made to look 8bit in 2004 or 03 or something, why upgrade it? It's retarded and ruins art. People don't change anime lip movements to keep art safe they say yet they'd do that? Remakes? Sometimes the remakes don't even look technologically better too I have heard in the current generation but have no specific example to prove the lack of upgrades with porting to newer gens. ps3 is as good as ps4 though with such a bad port. Or maybe ps5 was as good as 4, I don't recall but saw whining on it before many moons ago or maybe a year ago or so on another imageboard.

But yes, they got worse. Only a fool would think otherwise. All things tech hit critical dystopian mass by 2007ish or so, chipped cars, cpu backdoors, 'phones', etc. There's a thread hating games beyond 2013 but I wonder why someone keeps upping the year? Actually I don't, that's the younger person, I know, that never played gen 4 nor 5 so has different taste.


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Yeah. I don't mind 3D fighters but it irks me to have 3dcg models with fighters stuck on a 2d-plane.

I guess I miss sprites.


I don't like new things not just with video games but with other mediums as well. It's not just nostalgia because I also prefer older media that I never experienced before to newer more modern stuff. That being said there are some retro inspired new games I like such as Dusk.


what does emulation have to do with neeting? you're retarded


I think he meant having no money to spend on hardware to run the more demanding games and emulators


Indeed I did.

Did I not say anything about dolphin emulation for example not being possible on 30 usd android cellphones? I said gen 6, that's dolphin, other than gba you'd not be doing much of that. Spyro lags on my win7 computer I still have not thrown away of which was made for xp and is capable of literally opengl 1.4.

So yeah. It's about not being able to emulate gen 6 tier things and better. That would make someone emotionally biased against gen 6 and it's 'slightly better versions of itself' that came later. There were not large improvements after all, hence 'slightly'. So with how bad gen 6 is to emulate for a neet you'd just end up plain bitter and even ignorant to newer games unless you are dystopian enough to be on the outside looking in via watching others playing games.

I am retarded though, thanks for noticing.


>were old games better?

There's better tech nowadays but creativity got worse, developers don't seem to have any new ideas, they just repeat what is proven to sell, "open world cinematic rpg" sells well so they will just make these over and over again. This is true for indie devs aswell, many indie games are highly derivative of old retro games, how many retro fps that play and look almost exactly like quake or doom have been released recently? I guess this is a combination of nostalgia pandering, casualization and modern tech having less limitations.


wtf are you talking about schizo


I thought aluminum foil was fine, but the question is how much foil?

Also is wifi from a cellphone harming my heart? I wonder how much foil I need on my chest honestly.

But a Faraday cage post apocalyptic, don't they need lots of wattage going into them? Impractical.

Capitalism negates new ideas for what sells. That's part of the problem. Either way it's a psychological impasse though. You can call it nostaliga pandering but it's actually statistical pandering from a vantage point of an entrepreneur, one in charge of or related to advertising campaigns. A committee has to get together an talk about what the people will buy most and that can be something as stupid as Tetris or a fidget spinner or pet rock or finger box or pinball machine.


>Capitalism negates new ideas for what sells.
…then how'd these game appear in the first place? I think it's more reasonable to say that new ideas have a high reward/high risk model that has to be taken into account, and that a lot of firms are not adjustable enough to that.


A faraday cage is just a wire mesh to block EM radiation.


Solar flares strong enough to destroy your electronics is ridiculously rare, and one strong enough to destroy your ROMs will basically put modern civilization on hold for like a week.


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Some were. Here's my pick for old game I still occasionally play.


I play Diablo 2 still too, mods really give longevity to already great games.


games peaked around 2006-2014
around 2006 or so a lot of games saw improvements in visuals/gameplay due to technological development but they were still underground enough to not be watered down
starting around 2013-2015 the woke mentality started to infiltrate games and they became watered down to the masses
you can still find great games outside this era, like nier automata or broodwar but they are the exception not the rule.


this is a really underrated phenomenon. when the industry is small real shit like cs1.6 or broodwar gets noticed instantly. now its harder for legit games to get attention and you don't know what's legit or what's not.


"imply put CS isn't as fun as
it was back in the day and that's just down to freedom. You can go into random servers at any point in time 15 years ago and it'd be a culture of
its own. There really is no comparison to the feeling of going into a server at three in the morning, chugging Mountain Dews, and laughing along
as the college aged kids on the server crack jokes, talk, and make your time in the server an experience."


Remember playing games from the late 90s and 2000s, thinking that it's only going to get better. Lol. After 2010 there were probably only 5 games I heavily invested in, and it's not because they were great, they were decent and I was trying to escape


One game series that I think is better than anything coming out these days is classic megaman, I don't think any game has beat it in fun-factor, it is absolutely captivating to me in a way that no modern game has ever accomplished. It's one of those games where you lose hours in the span of what feels like minutes and you've forgotten to eat.



That thumbnail makes me nauseous


I don't know if they were better necessarily but a lot of genres and game ideas definitely peaked and subsequently stagnated, and otherwise remained unexplored -sometimes with a single game release that's 20 years old.
Sim City 4 came out right at the beginning of 2003 and it's arguably still the best city building game with it's only contemporary competitor being Cities Skylines. It's absolutely crazy to me that a game that's almost 19 years old is still the best in it's category with no competition.
Speaking of Maxis games, the Sims is another perfect example. The doll house life simulator formula has a tremendous amount of potential, but the series is literally one of a kind -not counting a couple of shitty knock offs like the Playboy Mansion game.
Or look at something like the Elder Scrolls. First person RPG with an immersive, open world where you can go into every building and steal a fork right off the table -there's really nothing else like that even though Morrowind came out almost 20 years ago. Oblivion had that radiant AI system going on with the NPC's that had their own lives, etc. It's not perfect, but it was a good beginning and I had hoped that 15 years later we would have a more realized manifestation of that concept, but no such thing.
I remember back in the day you had a DOS game called Wolf, a literal wolf simulator that was decently detailed for the time. The only other game I know like that is Wolf Quest, which is probably the most realistic animal simulator out there even today, which is sad because it's not even a particularly amazing game and it's almost 15 years old.

And those are just a few examples, but there's tons of games that are 20 years old and have literally never been surpassed in terms of mechanics or ideas, etc. There's certain video game experiences you can only have in literally a single 15 year old game, because nobody else attempted to elaborate on certain mechanics or even whole genres.

That to me is the great tragedy of modern gaming. It feels like any semblance of creativity and experimentation is completely absent. Even indie games which are supposed to have those elements are mostly just derivative shit. The recent trend of aping boomer shooters is a perfect example.


devs and their audience are too vulgar, no thoughtful or constructive critic. both are just mean and nasty, gunning each other down or ripping people to pieces. as for me wizzies, I'm off to catch chickens in shenmue III


That’s what happens when you show nothing but contempt for your customers for twenty+ years


I disagree with the general notion that golden age is long gone. If anything we are living in a new golden age, of india games and aa, and a instead of aaa level titles.
Yes the big budget gaming got really crippled, I will not repeat w hat many people already know about corporate meddling, dlcs, always trying to make a console port (or vice versa) to increase sales and so forth. As >>55951 says the innovation is also gone too, with risk being too high aaa development focused on other things. I even think that quality has detoriated, compare sims2 with sims4 if you ever ever need a example. The attention to detail, the content all suffered.

But still I think we also live in a good period where small indie development or small studio development can flourish. Disco Elysium, Papers Please, DayZ etc are products of 2010s, where small budgeting, modding, or small studios were able to penetrate the market.
I think the worst period of gaming was 2005-2010. No kickstarter, budget to make games was very high (compared to 90s), there was no kickstarter indie movement either (compared to 2010s), few games absolutely dominated the marketplace and everyone wanted to emulate them rather than innovate (wow and mmos being the most obvious example) and the bloody focus on console and how every pc game was also designed with console version/port being in mind. I really don't miss that era. Yeah you can argue few good things came out, Dwarf Fortress SS13 and so on but I would say even they started to became popular on late 2000s into 2010s.

Another thing that matters now is the focus has shifted from PC's now. Back then consoles were already taking over but with tablets and mobile gaming the casual pc gaming era is long gone. The money is in mobile games now so the corporate attention is there too. I think PC will be more and more of a niche genre in the near future. It is already becoming as such


I wouldn't say gaming has gotten worse, it is just that it is harder to find good games. In the past all you had to do was go to a gaming store, browse their selection, pick out something that looked interesting, and chances are you brought a decent game. Now there are a fuckton of games for you to choose from and a lot of them are genuinenly shit. It is like browsing newgrounds in the early 2000s except that you have to pay for those shit games. You can't even trust games from studios th at you used to love because those big budget studios have publishers that tend to ruin their games with profit-driven decisions.

I've been playing 'Workers & Resources: Soviet Republic' a lot recently. It is the best city builder I ever played. It has been in development for a while because it supposedly only has one developer.


I've been thinking about that game for a whiles, as I'm really into the soviet era, but I have a hard time getting into complex strategy/sim games, and its never had a cheap sale.


that magic about old games still exists, you just have to sift through the shitware of indie game developers to find it. nothing made by a studio will ever have that charm, and all successful and popular game devs eventually create/join studios which produce only garbage


I think I have a pretty unique and neutral take on gaming from my own experience. I mostly played "abandonware" games in my teens in the 2000s, older games from the 1980s and 1990s. A 1995 game was very new for me in 2005. Then I took a long break from gaming and only started getting back into it last year.

So I knew about 1985-1998 games, basically skipped over 1999-2010 games, and then started playing new games last year. So I have no nostalgia about 2000-2010 games, they are as new to me as 2020 games.

From my point of view, gaming really peaked in the 2000s to 2010s. Which is not to say its all downhill from there. But the increment of improvement definitely declined. Diminishing returns. The changes from the 1980s to 90s to 00s were really revolutionary. But it starts slowing down by the mid 2000s. Like it feels like most of the features of current games are already there by the mid to late 2000s. And then once you compare 2010 to 2020 games. Yes graphics incrementally improved. But a 2010 game is a lot more similar to a 2020 game than a 2005 game is to a 1995 game.

Especially if you remaster the graphics, even a game from 2005 can feel brand new.

So I'm not necessarily saying older games are better, but they at least equalized in a lot of ways, despite being a decade or more older.


>From my point of view, gaming really peaked in the 2000s to 2010s
This is not likely to be a very popular opinion. The latter half of that decade in particular was very poor qualitatively and quantitatively with the move to HD, the prevalence of cover shooters, the decline of japanese developers (on home consoles at least) and so on.


no, they weren't better.
you can't use blanket statements when discussing old games.
were SOME old games infinitely better than the average game out now?
but was the average old game better than the average new game?

people enjoy ignoring the fact that you can download the entire SNES and GBA library for like under a gigabyte and look at them for yourself.
and from just glancing at the titles you can know instantly that 90% of them are literally unplayable.
the SNES, the best game library ever made? that's a funny thing to say about a console library so fucking shit that people only acknowledge like 10 titles out of it in total.

look, new games might be a bad time overall all around. but you can pick one up and actually play it and it works. the design is competent. the controls make sense. you know where to go and what to do. you can see the end credits roll in a reasonable amount of time.
now on the flipside, do you think anybody in the past year has played Indiana Jones' Greatest Adventures? let alone to completion?
i'm not even cherrypicking some legendary terrible game, that's actually considered "good" to some. that's a perfectly average representation of the SNES library.

that was a rhetorical and the answer is no btw. people aren't gonna be playing Indiana Jones' Greatest Adventures anytime soon. they'll just play Earthbound and whatever Final Fantasy was out on SNES and pretend they're the only games released on the console in online discussions. don't pay any attention to the 10,000 unplayable shovelware games nobody has mentioned in 15+ years.

games that shit don't get released anymore by AAA devs. they're too expensive to fail on basic matters like controls and navigation. 20 years from now when PS4 is considered retro, people will be more willing to play these games because you don't need a game guide to figure out an intentionally impossible puzzle that forces you to buy the magazine, and you don't jump by pressing square and holding down the up button like you did on piece of shit SNES games.


it's more accurate to compare modern games to early 3d games


I am going to have to disagree. I am old enough to remember the genesis era pretty well. I used to go to the store, browse their selection, and pick a game based on the box art and back cover alone. I brought plenty of 'shitty' games, but I never actually felt bummed out at getting a bad game.

I think the main difference is that games didn't take themselves as seriously back then. Modern games are so complex that they require at least an hour or two of your time to learn gameplay mechanics and get into the story. Back in the 16-bit era, you figured out the gameplay mechanics with 30 seconds by pressing all the buttons on the controller. The simplicity of these old games made it easy for you to put them down if you aren't enjoying them. Or maybe you just pushed through the shit because it was a Saturday, and you had nothing else to do. Almost all games were able to complete in an afternoon anyway.

Modern games are so long and so forgiving that bad games just feel like a never-ending slog that makes you feel drained after finishing them. I get anxious when looking for new games these days because I don't want to waste hours of my life playing a game only to find out that it is shit. Sure, there are game reviews, but I found those to be unreliable. Game reviewers today seem to have created an industry circlejerk that praises things that the critics only care about.


Are you retarded? Most of the SNES library is playable. Even bad 2d platformers are generally better than most modern games releasing utterly broken with constant interruptions and story getting in the way. How many SNES games force you to walk slowly behind someone while they lecture you on plot/politics for 20 minutes? That's a terrible game.

Indian Jones adventure looks pretty fun from the long play I just checked. I'll be giving it a go later.

>Games that shit don't get released anymore by AAA devs

In the year 2021/22 where almost every major franchise released broken and missing major features we had 15 years ago. Halo infinite, CoD and Battlefield are all in worse states now than they were on the 360


>In the year 2021/22 where almost every major franchise released broken and missing major features we had 15 years ago. Halo infinite, CoD and Battlefield are all in worse states now than they were on the 360
yeah that's crazy. i wonder why


original treyarch devs were always trying something new, I miss them
I know exactly where you're going with this, rip thread


Everyone knows, you'd have to be a blind retard not to know. It's no secret, and is actively pushed in everyone's face.


this is now /v/ 2.0


you can be as willfully ignorant as you want.


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you tried to stir up the same politics and crab culture wars in two different threads before


I'm not even the guy you replied to in this thread. All I'm saying is that to deny the existence of this culture war crap and its infestation in games is to be denying reality.



oh snap we got a few Yuri Bezmenovs running around here lols


you used the term, not me.


Games are now made by studios entire worlds apart and pieced together at the last minute (i.e. crunch) trying to fix all the broken shit.

Remember GTA Trilogy being such a shit show? The credits are full of Indians. It's street shitter quality.

Cyberpunk 2077 likely has similar issues. Star Citizen did when they hired a studio to make a game in an engine they heavily modified so it wasn't playable in it.

Retards going to retard mate. Don't worry about them.


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crabs foam at the mouth when a neet never involves himself in the crabdom drama in which they themselves take part of, nor will the neet fight.


Retards going to retard mate. Don't worry about them.


I’ve never seen a poster make an intelligent post with the word crab in it.


He said in the very first sentence that he's NEET, you stupid cunt.


What the fuck does that have to do with anything?


I think he meant having no money to spend on hardware to run the more demanding games and emulators


Holy fucking Christ am I just going insane? What does that HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING THAT WAS BEING TALKED ABOUT?


A PS5 is literally $1000. Pretty easy to understand.


not crazy, just people are replying to months old posts without directly >>replying and there is like 3 simultaneous conversation topics going on here all mixed together


last few posts in this thread are by bots or literal retards, including this one


>Were old games better?
Absolutely, back in the 6th gen and early 7th gen, and even before, games didn't have feature bloat, they were more focused. Compare GTA SA to GTA V, the former is a open world crime simulator with a story and tons of features to enhance the sandbox, the latter is the same, but with a shitty, clunky and slow online multiplayer mode solely designed to sell microtransactions. Of course, great games are still being made, but back in the day we had classics releasing every month of the year, now we get 3 or 4 a year if we're lucky. Compare the early entries to the recent ones in the following franchises and see how much useless, unnecessary trash there is along with the basic game design.
>counter strike
>call of duty
>final fantasy
>street fighter
>fromsoft games
>far cry
>monster hunter (World and Rise are really good but suffer from this problem anyway)

Sure, there is a lot of nostalgia that clouds my judgement when it comes to the problems these older games have, but it's undeniable how things changed for the worst. Halo CE and 2 were simple games, a campaign, a multiplayer mode, a server browser and that's it, Halo Infinite have all these menus trying to make you buy skins, tons of stupid annoying pop-ups, lots of shitty weapons and grenades that don't fit the game at all, and the devs have all the money and infrastructure to fix this but they don't.

It's no use complaning thought, normalfags love the shitty ELO systems and skins so it's not going away anytime soon. Oh well, I'm doing my part voting with my wallet.


Back then people made the games they wanted to make, yeah they were made for profit as always but people got really creative back in the PS2 era, as gaming wasn't as big developers and publishers could afford to make simpler, fun games that were not a big deal if they failed, in fact companies like sony or nintendo used to fund some of those games just to provide variety and value to their consoles.

During the PS360 era games became a very big business, developing a game became so fucking expensive and complex that a "flop" could bankrupt the entire company, people got used to play the same shit over and over so developers complied and made the same shit over and over again, fucktard executives realized that they could squeeze money out of people willing to pay for DLC's that used to be free unlockables.

Everything went way worse during the PS4-Xone era, now everything is a sequel because creating new games out of new ideas is risky and investors hate risks, online became a fuckfest where people are willing to spend $500 to get some shitty skin so the games became retarded so anyone could play them "for free" while spending money on shitty lootboxes, in fact the fun is not on playing the game anymore, the fun is getting some shitty item in the newest battle pass or something.

That and paid online, censorship, the rise of fucking discord, streamers, twitch whores etc, now gaming is just artificial shit created to suck you dry, it sucks and the worse is yet to come as always.


I also think that games got heavily invested in retarded "narratives" and forgot that a game is supposed to be fun and engaging.
Let's say Gears of War 1 for example, the entire game is all about action, shooting and cover, the history is very thin and the cutscenes last 2 minutes, the entire game is shooting to whatever those creatures are.

Now take Gears 5, the game follows a retarded plot about "muh origins muh family" I couldn't care less about, you spend like 20 minutes doing stupid shit to get into a fight, there's a lot of dumb mechanics that are completely innecessary etc,

Games back then were about having fun and not about trying to tell a dumb story, and the few games that were actually trying to tell you something (MGS1, FFVII) did it in such a fun and engaging way that basically made them masterpieces, hell even today MGS1 with those shitty graphics is better than 90% of the games released today.

Technology doesn't make better games, just more expensive games.


My opinion was going to be kinda of similar to this video. For many years I held the SNES generation as the greatest, but that was out of nostalgia. Impartially, PS2 generation was the best. They had the technology to do so much, and not a standard for all the games to follow, which led to so many creative developments and absolutely new gaming experiences. After that games thrived much more on handhelds and indies.


Handhelds get overlooked so hard, I wonder if it's just because they're kind of rough blown up on an emulator. I love the PS2 but the DS might just be my favorite console. There are so many cool experimental titles on the system that I have just never seen anyone talk about.


youre actually a retard if you think only muh crabs care about undesirables and feminists infiltrating and ruining the game industry

its undeniable games are being tainted by these cretins, to imply otherwise is to be a dumb faggot

just another reason games were better back in the day, because they were pure and unadultered, just guys making cool shit you wanted, simple as


Not the poster, but I don't see why this shit matters to anyone who isn't obsessed with succubi/politics.

Do I roll my eyes a little when a succubus beats up 5 men with her bare hands or there is some stupidly disproportionate minority representation or when there is another ethnically ambiguous character with sidebuzzed neon hair? Yeah, sure, it's stupid. But it's never affected my enjoyment of a game, and for the most part it doesn't even affect the games I play. It's mostly relegated to casual normie garbage that would have been terrible with or without it.

Name a single good game "ruined" by SJWs/feminists, I cannot think of any. The one I always see complained about the most is The Last of Us 2, and if you liked the first game your taste is so unsalvageably bad in the first place that you deserve to have your favorite things ruined.


>Do I roll my eyes a little when a succubus beats up 5 men with her bare hands or there is some stupidly disproportionate minority representation or when there is another ethnically ambiguous character with sidebuzzed neon hair? Yeah, sure, it's stupid. But it's never affected my enjoyment of a game

you poor whipped soul

is it because you paid $80 for the game? as a pirate if there is anything wrong or dumb with the game i have no difficulty uninstalling it and never picking it up again.


Are you 13? I can't remember the last time I've seen someone bragging about pirating. This board is mostly neets/poors, the odds of anyone you respond to actually paying for singleplayer games is practically 0%.


you must have missed the amazon thread. if you dont pay for something you have no reason to look past dumb things and questionable design decisions. you have complete luxury of choice. if it doesnt bug you that's fine, but i am the type unable to play games like horizon dawn simply because the protag is a fat ginger succubus. i drop games and anime for much less than that actually


drop them panties crab


You generally have to look past a few dumb things when it comes to most videogames, especially when it comes to writing. Even a lot of my favorite games have a few low points.
>unable to play games like horizon dawn simply because the protag is a fat ginger succubus
You're kind of proving my statement about you having no taste and this only affecting shit games. If your biggest and only problem with horizon is that the main character is a succubus then you're what's actually hurting videogames.


>the odds of anyone you respond to actually paying for singleplayer games is practically 0%.
I do buy games and I am sure there others who do.


idk seems there are a lot of consoletards here


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So basically you're saying you can tell games are being tainted with cringy trash that's specifically designed by bad faith people to be unappealing to you but you don't care because they don't effect the specific games you care about, that's cool, bonus points for implying anyone who does care is a crab - wow it's almost like you're a textbook normalfag. If anything neets and wizards should care MORE because speaking for myself, playing games is my number one pastime, so the greater pool of potential games I can choose from the better.

If you can still play these games despite including such unamiable trash then you're part of the problem, out of principle I'm not going to play them because I know the devs have no respect for me so they can eat shit. This should be the correct response and then maybe they'd stop doing it, but as the average gamer is a shit eater who just puts up and shuts up, they won't. I don't disagree this mostly effects mainstream titles that are otherwise poorly designed / shitty games anyway, but that's besides the point. On the off chance they do make a good game, that good game would be entirely wasted because on a base level it's unappealing poo so I'm not going to play it. There's no reason not to assume they won't eventually ruin a franchise / series you do like, and then you'll look like a right idiot for being such a milquetoast fence sitter. Even outside of games it'll start happening to anime / manga, already seen them include a reference to the "patriarchy" in a crunchyroll translation - this is the sort of hateful miasma that works itself into ruining things guys like.

Art and character design are as important as gameplay, compare the protag of dead space to returnal, in the former you play a master chief esque dude in a cool suit, in the latter some wrinkly old succubus with a open faced dome helmet (so you can see how strong and badass she is!!!) - no thanks, you can make cool female characters, that ain't it. All modern multiplayer games are made by hack devs who create ugly unappealing characters on purpose, because a small vocal group of feminist gatekeepers control the culture. A perfect example is rainbow six siege, an actual good tactical shooter that started with a cohesive cast of cool soldiers (see top of image) and turned into a mess of ugly tryhard abominations and nonbinary persons (see bottom of image). This is undoubtedly down to the influence of intersectional feminists who helped change the art direction and narrative of the game into their own gross experiment.
To anyone with taste and a spine, the game is now ruined, not only is it unappealing it's insulting, so they can fuck off, I refuse to play it.

I don't care about politics, I just want cool games.


>You generally have to look past a few dumb things when it comes to most videogames, especially when it comes to writing.
i actually don't have to and that's my point. if you object to anything in a game, just stop playing it. if you keep playing it you're whipped. it's not hard to avoid this shit


/v/ tier cherry pick argument. all fake outrage for the sake of it, happened to cuphead and zoom eternal.
how come none of this was brought up during metroid prime's release? all post crabchan/culture war, try it on /jp/ and see if they don't say bug off with your crab drama


Maybe your bar for "objectionable" is higher than mine, but there are very few games without a single thing I dislike about them.
>So basically you're saying you can tell games are being tainted with cringy trash care because they don't effect the specific games you care about
Yes, I don't care that the games at chuck-e-cheese are made for children or that casual focus-tested "cinematic" games have succubi in them. Do you know why these games have succubi in them? They're casting a wider net, appealing to a broader audience, because that's the point of them. They're made for the lowest common denominator(you). If you think horizon or whatever other casual schlock would have been good if only it had a male protagonist, you're what actually ruins videogames.
>A perfect example is rainbow six siege,
It is the perfect example, because it's the most casual clone of a shit game that ruined a genre. Sorry it has succubi in it now, but it's probably to pander to all the succubi/trannies/horny dudebros who play your game.


Terrible /v/ tier thread


there are tons of things i dislike about older games, but they are almost always related to horrible control schemes, bad UI, low quality or aged graphics and assets. modern games have it reversed imo


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It's not fake outrage you moron, because if you have standards (you clearly don't) you should want games to actually appeal to you (the demographic). You admit there's gay shit in these games and then turn a blind eye to it because you're a pleb, simple as. It's not cherrypicked either that's just an explicit example, it's obvious to tell when a game is tainted by these people and they're everywhere.

What are you even talking about metroid prime for you tard, samus is actually a cool character, what is there to complain about? Get your head on straight before posting next time please you crab obsessed schizo.

Yes I'm actually what ruins videogames because I have taste and won't play a game if the art style / character design is garbage (it's almost always garbage when feminigs and other miscreants infiltrate studios - which they have). It actually wasn't a clone of anything until they ruined it for reasons I already stated so you don't know what you're even talking about. All you can muster up is normalfag tier "lol u dont like succubi tcrab" because you're a cretin. I want to play cool characters, doesn't matter the gender, but okay. No I don't think open world cruddy cinematic assassins shart clone 5000 would've been good with a male protag, it's a shit game and it's ugly.

I can't wait until other media you enjoy gets ruined by these people and you still act like hostile fags to anyone calling out the obvious.


there are more than 4 decades worth of anime and games but you still focus on that crabgate outrage, you want to manipulate the opinion of the thread and turn in into some political circus. you're not fooling anyone


The topic of the thread is whether video games have improved or declined with time. Bitching about modern video games is going to happen ITT.


crabs like creating controversy, stirring up drama when there isn't any


Nice breadtube video faggot. Yeah you're definitely not obsessed with politics.


Don't lose your time with these people. At this point anyone who doesn't want to see what happened to media in the last decade is just pretending and should be let to root with the people they defend and the media they destroyed.


crabgaters 100%


100% obsessed


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i can forgive stuff like this. it's just a horrible art style from the 30 seconds i saw of it yesterday

i don't think they have poisoned the story or added woke characters and politics at the very least


>i don't think they have poisoned the story or added woke characters and politics at the very least
No need to do that when the old games already had a useless man as main character and his wife who was way more resourceful, smart and whatnot


lol his nose looks like a faggot penis and his face looks like a beady eyed soyfag


Even if you think the old days were worse, the over-monetization is what rules over the AAA and mobile games nowdays which is getting worse each year with no recovery in sight.
Around 5 years ago it became demoralizing for a passionate dev working on an indie title or even an old-style AAA company to put effort and creativity in a new game, when they could have recycled the style/template/genre/mechanics/artstyle of the current most popular games and then cobble those assets and ideas in a mobile game with every single monetization trick available which will generate like 10 times the money the creative/unique/fresh game would have made.


You mean french animation?


You might as well be a feminist yourself with how obsessed you are with gamergate, in fact you're worse because where you should have solidarity for your fellow wizneet player you are instead Judas. You're simply the other side of the coin of the re/v/tard archetype - smug, hostile, calls anyone who doesn't take it up the posterior like himself a slur. Just because le alt-right toxwic muh es jay double u gamers are conflated into one big group of misdirected morons doesn't mean there isn't a large kernel of truth in their somewhere.

Here's an actual good video about the topic instead of the run of the mill meek fence sitting nothing you posted:


It's not about politics (left or right doesn't matter, both are losers who bow before feminigs) and I'm not redirecting the thread, if someone wants to talk about why modern games are bad this is a major contributing factor (depending on the games you play) and it pays to talk about it properly.


Why the fuck anyone would talk about gamer gate here, that topic should be banned and anyone talking about it banned too.


Cause this ain’t 4chan and people can talk about what they want you little censorious faggot.


>gamer gate here
It directly influenced Wizardchan and the whole debacle has resulted in a few confirmed suicides of men.
>Having some topics that are not OK on an already niche forum is "censorious"
You're just as bad as him


Oh save me the bullshit. Any topic that has good reason to be avoided here should be easy to explain why and thus, needn't be avoided at all.


>What do you think? Was old really better or is it nostalgia
they were better, but that's because then their audience was different
it was majority male social outcasts and autists

but then somewhere along the road games became mainstream, audience changed to normie sex-havers and succubi, and everything immediately went to shit, like everything that normies ever touch

plus monetization of the internet in general fucked shit up big time for every cultural endeavor


The business has changed. A lot.

I don't know if you have an interest in business stories. I like them. I like the dreams, ambitions, egos and pathos that they wring out of their people, showing good men at their worst and bad men at their best. And game companies produce some really great business stories. "Not All Fairytales Have Happy Endings," "Masters of Doom," the rise and fall of Infocom, the tragedy of Darth LucasArts the Wise.

If you follow a company with deep roots, which has been in the industry since let's say the mid-90s, like Valve, Blizzard, Id, Activision, Electronic Arts, or Bungie, you'll that their games have become strange deviations on the genre format, and the companies have all turned into something strange and byzantine and incomprehensibly bizarre in comparison with where they started out. EA made Sentinel Worlds and Hard Nova, they were willing to be weird and creative in addition to their baseline of pushing out Madden football every year. Bungie and Valve both transformed from being upstarts into exploitative major players whose business practices were the subject of congressional legislation. Bungie had always exploited the loyalty they'd won from their fans (embed related), the company was founded on a base of Macintosh gaming specifically because it seemed like a good way to get loyal buyers, but in the last 10 years their approach changed from things like the embedded charming story of strong marketing to a loyal base into outright borderline-criminal exploitative user-hostile mechanics up to and including removing content that users had out and out paid for. This is Bungie, a gaming company that once decided that they would rather face bankruptcy than allow Myth II cds to go out to their users un-patched since a borderline-impossible scenario for running the uninstaller would potentially erase more than just the installed copy of Myth. They've fallen a long, long way.

Independents aren't any better. Indie gamedevs making shovelware out of game jam ideas are not the same as groups of recent college grads who were legitimately at the actual cutting edge of technological development. It's too simplistic to say that the difference is that indie devs now are just trendchasers in it for a quick buck, since small studio devs like Id or Bungie or early MicroProse were also in it for money. There's a charming story from Bungie about the last days of independence, after Microsoft had finalized their deal but before Bungie West was shuttered forever, in which their CEO, Alex Seropian would spend his nights adding lighting and light effects to make sure that Oni would look as good as it could and come as close as possible to satisfying its buyers as it could before it shipped. At that point it was obvious they were never going to turn that into the game that anybody wanted it to be, and even if the game was successful somehow it would only line Take2 and Rockstar's pockets, but everyone up to the CEO felt that it would be dishonorable to put anything but their best possible effort on the shelves, so he'd grind away at it after already spending a full work day ensuring that post-acquisition Microsoft wasn't going to do to them what it had already done to FASA Interactive (which Halo mutliplayer design lead Hardy LeBel once describes as Bungie's "sister company"). Few people, including Bungie loyalists, thought that Oni was their new favorite game. But nobody felt downright insulted by it either. Because come hell or high water Bungie was not going to put out an unfinished game, even in the face of collapse and closure and total revenue failure.


I don't think they would take the risk again knowing full well there is a chance of becoming homeless just so the game ends up a cult hit at best with only a few hundred copies sold, thousands if they're lucky like what happened to thq, ea, dice and rockstar subsidiaries


Absolutely. It's the sort of decision that's born of the virtues of youth in an industry built on specific customer/provider relationships. Which is what changed. The industry itself Microsoftized, and then it metastasized from there. Bungie today, in how it's handled Destiny, has been a poster child for questionably ethical and even questionably legal business practices, in ways that they weren't even under Microsoft. Independents are not better than AAAs in that they are usually just as ruthless and player-exploitative as the major studios, but without their managerial professionalism.


You should play anything from Arc System Works


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Yes they used to be better.
Others did notice that UT 2004 has shit loads of content (modes and maps) that simply will never happen in modern games.

Modern games are full of micro transaction bullshit. Season passes and all this garbage they literally take you out of the game and nickle and dime you for everything.

in the old days you joined a game and played it and maybe there where some mods on the server to make it something totally different.

Example Counter Strike and Warcraft III

Also games rarely if ever updated. This means that some exploit was basically true for the game forever. And the devs made a new game some years after the original.

Today they change the game non stop and then abandon it and since it has no lan or anything the game is basically dead.

However the loot boxes and other crap are distracting form the game experience.


To truly answer this question you have to tell us what you've been playing recently. Usually pisstake threads like this come from people that haven't touched games in 10 years and no longer care about the medium, no longer keep up with releases and no longer explore anything.


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> I often pinpoint to myself things that make the game terrible, but also things that
The 2000s where are special time you get the ball breaking "FUCK YOU" hard games who basically throw you a game no one tested
Perfect example Jedi Knight 2
And other games who learned to not be so randomly hard like Jedi Academy basically a stand alone expansion on Jedi Knight 2.

Yes there where games like this. However also this :

>OP's pic being Counter-Strike. Simply put CS isn't as fun as

it was back in the day and that's just down to freedom. You can go into random servers at any point in time 15 years ago and it'd be a culture of
This. CS is by all measures a shit game with broken mechanics.

However It was fun to fool around the server.

However it promoted this by having all servers community servers.
Playing a serious match in 1V1 is totally different then 2V2 or 3V3 and when the server populates you get the absolute insanity of 32 V 32.

Today games are e-sports trash. CS:GO is literally the same 5 V 5 (or what was it) every time so it feels the same and boring. And "muh rank ! " ensures there is no experimentation on the server. People sometimes goofed around or did strange things especially in CSS.

This e-sports shit gets boring fast.

Either way CS did have sounds (unthinkable now) basically reaction images if they where MP3s remember playing these to communicate to everyone your intentions ?

These where community made sounds.
Today ?
Pay $$$ for lootboxes that let you have sounds the developer selected for you; no copyright infringement allowed.

Back in the day someone threw a Mario jump MP3 and did not even give 1 fuck ! Today lawyers need to license this form Nintendo and it will cost $ 300 to own.


nah it really is just you morons with no love for games to begin with, you have a passion for whining only
get a hobby you clown, because you clearly don't know shit about videogames


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I definitely think games are worse off today but I can still enjoy quite a few recent games. The new deus ex games, monster hunter, katana zero, binding of isaac, death stranding, carrier command 2, and naissance just to name my most recent favorites.

IMO the only real thing that changed about games was what changed about the whole world, being the internet. Games didn't have microtransactions or day one patches only because there wasn't a feasible way of implementing it. The whole "political" stuff still existed with games like mortal kombat, rape lay, dead or alive, and even weird shit like censoring digimon because of sistermon being a nun. But there was no twitter or 4chan to really drum up drama so the most you saw was some lame fox news special that most people forgot about the next day. As opposed to stuff like gamergate that is still floating around to this day.

As long as gaming can fight off the cancer that is streaming, and so far the ouya and stadia bombed so there is hope, I think gaming will be fine.


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you guys pressed fast forward to the golden era 90s-2000s of games but skipped the massive software civil war of the previous decade.
they were suing people for modding, software crackers being sent to camps. there was a plan to drive vans that would detect if you modded your pc.
van failed but a far more sinister method is about to take its place in the form of TPM chips.

mods are about to become illegal once more, they're working on it


thats the truth. almost happened to the id guys too, some group was selling floppy disks with stolen wads but like you said customer/provider relationships saved their butts.

do you think it's a coordinated attack on new talent? some sort of technocrat cartel "silver or lead?" tactic by microsoft (they have powerful friends) buy up all the competition while they're too busy farming xp/gold


keep burying your head in the sand then you oblivious disingenuous retard, cant wait till a game or franchise you enjoy gets ruined like it did for me but oh yeah i dont actually care about games
fucking cretin


Yes they were


Thing is that's a ton of games to like. When speaking of older titles people only ever talk about the dozen a year good ones that came out and not the 300 4/10s.
My absolute favorite games come from both the late 90s and the late 2010s. Because brilliant games are still being made. No microtransactions, day one patches, no drama. Nothing. Just good games.
You obviously don't care yes as can be seen in your attachment to a fucking franchise over individual titles. Thief and Gothic have long since been run into the ground, Dragon Quest oversimplified. Woe is me right? I really sure wish they'd have made 25 more entries in all these series so I never have to play anything else again. Shut the fuck up.


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Pictured: Greg Kirkpatrick, author of most of the terminals in the Marathon trilogy, regarding his reaction to Bungie's "Destiny" series.


How do I play that which does not get made? I don't like Brutal Doom and I don't like Triple A Call of duty clones. How many FPS games do I get a year if I don't like either of the major genre paths? Like… walking sims?

I don't know if you could ever call Valve and upstart considering it was made up of ex Microsoft employees. They were already inside the silicon valley system at that point and used the connections to get big media attention for Half life.

Bungie wasn't a very good innovator of game design. They were very good at cutting away the fat and really polishing games to be the best they could be. It's what indie developers should be doing but instead we get Zelda/Metroid/Megaman/Vampire savior in a human centipede line of playing old game, improve slightly and release to be played again. You're not playing a new interesting Zelda made by someone who understands the genre and how to innovate it. You're playing LTTP with worse art and worse world design but more dialog boxes. Which is less refined than a 30 year old game.

That customer relationship thing wasn't really true back then. Nintendo and Microsoft were both super hostile to everything and anything. The odd random small studio having loyalty to it's fans was the exception not the rule.

There's nothing wrong with streaming games or game pass as a side option. Game pass has loads of xbox 360/xbone games you can stream which never left the console. Lets say you want to play Halo 5 or Gears of war Judgement but you don't own a console for either because they're 15 years old now. You're not buying a 360 for Judgement and 360 emulation is still very flaky. Paying 1 dollar for a game pass 3 month trial lets you play both of those on any device with decent internet. With minor input delay. It's not ideal but there's definitely a market for backwards compatibility on modernish consoles we can't emulate yet. I don't see a problem with games like Control on the Switch either as long as you're not paying full retail for it and game design doesn't get slower because of input delay from them.

Sister Noir was censored for being a nun holding 2 handguns in what is seen as a kids game. MK is SJWs taking over the studio. Rape lay is decades out now and Dead or alive was internal meddling like MK.
Lots of talk happens about the non-stop spots. Channels like SNES Drunk live off of finding underappreciated games worth playing.


>That customer relationship thing wasn't really true back then. Nintendo and Microsoft were both super hostile to everything and anything. The odd random small studio having loyalty to it's fans was the exception not the rule.
Odd random studios back then were the exception in console games, but the rule in PC games. Westwood, id, Looking Glass, etc. were not minor notes rung against EA Activision or Microsoft, they were major players in the gaming market. These small studios' logistical needs in terms of getting DOS disks into storefronts and to the hands of customers created chains of dependence where online storefronts like Steam instead create passive income. So the relationships that these small studios had to maintain weren't just with the customers, but also with providers, who were often themselves smaller vendors or hobby shops running on margin. Small studios today make up the bulk of games available on platforms like Steam, but only a minority of sales. Westwood and Blizzard were toe-to-toe with Microsoft's Ensemble Studios in the RTS scene, and there wasn't a major corporation in America that was a direct match for id's Quake until years down the line.


>How do I play that which does not get made? I don't like Brutal Doom and I don't like Triple A Call of duty clones. How many FPS games do I get a year if I don't like either of the major genre paths? Like… walking sims?
I guess you haven't noticed the classic exploration FPS boom of the last few years nor keep up with major doom content releases huh. Almost like you're not exploring anything because you don't really care.
Go play Overboard or something, it's a small little doom mapset by Mouldy. It's cute and maybe it'll get you to actually play something again.


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>were old games better?
yes, this is what games look like now
some of these are titles with $500-800mil budgets


What is this proving exactly? One of those images is from an April fools day event.


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Nah, newer games are better. Pic related has been my all time favorite fps, and among my most favourite games period. If you want to pretend like I haven't played enough, I have a chart with about about 100+ fps games I've played and rated.


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ugly neon colors, strong womyn and minorities


A reboot of an old game is not argument for new games being better. It just shows games are so shit now they have to remake old ones.


it hurts looking at thus shit lol


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Eternal plays nothing like old Doom, not even remotely close to it either. Try playing some games for once instead of judging off the cover.


Get this 4chan tier shit out of here


I'll enjoy playing good old games. You can keep your niggers and trannies.


previously on /v/ and /r/kotakuinaction


He's correct about Eternal playing completely differently from Doom, though. There are plenty of Doom aficionados who are able to talk about just how different the games really are. If you need a 'here's all the reasons the new gameplay style sucks' essay to make that clear to you, then here you go:


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That word press is a bit outdated honestly, its only speaking about 2016 doom and it was written before that game was even released so he's just crying about a game he never ever had a chance to play himself.

Eternal is very colorful, very arcadey, and very fast. In that regard it is closer to old doom, but man it doesn't play like old doom at all. It feels a bit like taking an online match of UT/Q3 and then mashing in some character action (Ninja Gaiden, God of War, etc) philosphy in there with combos, animation canceling, and actual combat depth beyond simply "shoot until it dies".

I don't recommend it for old doom fans who want complex levels, this game as I said takes a lot of inspiration from character action games and the levels are you on a path from arena to arena with a bit of platforming in between. The people I recommend this game to are action fans or especially people who like both fps and action games. Pure fps fans generally get upset they can't simply hold down m1 to win, so its not really for them.

>t. the person who posted Eternal to begin with.


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>thread literally about if older games were better
>guys posts examples of why they were and why modern games are unappealing trash


What are these classic exploration FPS you speak of? I keep my eye on FPS and all I see is brutal doom wannabe, It's pain killer but with less enemy variety (I think these are the games you're talking about) or ir's a Doom WAD made by trannies.


You have a warped perspective and I can't believe you compared it to games like DMC. In DMC I have full use of everything but devil trigger, I choose how I use my weapons and my abilities to mix things up any way I wish. In DMC I can twitch shot the shotgun to turn it into a minigun or I can ignore guns entirely outside of breaking Shadows and only use my melee.

In Doom Eternal I can.. kill mooks with chainsaw to get my very limited ammo back. I can shoot the marauder in the small window he flashes after he attacks. I can use all my ammo on a cacodemon or… use the exact grenade kill they want me to. I can flame enemies to get armor.. I have zero freedom in this game because the developer wanted to force me to repeat very specific gameplay loops and thought they knew how to have fun better than I did. As a player, I like shotguns, I enjoy being up close and punishing with meaty weapons doing spread damage. Doom Eternal "should" be ideal for me with it's (stolen from dark souls) dodge and yet the game tells me I can only use the shotgun for a little while or I better stop having fun and go chainsaw something. I could shotgun a caco… but why bother right? Grenade it instead.

DMC is a combat game with near infinite freedom where enemies have weaknesses you can exploit but you choose how you approach them. Rebellion never says nope, sorry you can't use me here because you already used me on the last 2 enemies. Doom Eternal does exactly that. It plays like a puzzle game with bad movement (Been a while since I played but doesn't the dodge stop all your momentum? You know, the opposite of what Quake does with bunny hopping). You run around the arena facing barely any threat and then put the square peg in the square hole and run around again until you need to chainsaw something to restock your pegs. The game is awful and it's not because you can't hold M1 and win. It's because the game forces you to play in a very narrow play space and it's not interesting. Once you kill 1 Caco with a grenade you have killed them all. Once you have seen 1 glory kill you have seen them all. It's extremely shallow and intentionally made that way. And then we have to get into all the platforming and story segments which are just plain bad. So you have mediocre combat forcing you down narrow play styles and then even worse platforming sections. Eternal is basically Uncharted more than it's Doom and that might be what you like, but I would rather be free to use guns I enjoy and not have to watch constant boring animations.

To sum up the problem with Eternal in 1 sentence.
>Kids think it's cool to see Doom guy do something bad ass, Adults think it's cool to do something bad ass themselves.


Dude just say you found the gameplay repetitive, what’s with this grandstanding about what’s childish and adult. In both games you get to see your character do something cool by pressing the buttons.


nu-zoom critics on any site get shouted down, these devs gotta understand any attempts at platforming in first person will be complete shite unless it's a first person metroidvania but only one of those has been made in 20 years.


Innovation has pretty much mostly stopped, but good games still get made. The past was filled with shit, but it's lost to the sands of time.


Yes and no. There were just as many dogshit games made in the past as there are now. The thing is that we have the benefit of hindsight so good games from their respective eras are remembered while all the licensed shovelware shit goes mostly forgotten. And various eras of video games had their own cancerous business practices that they engaged in (games being obtuse to "encourage" you to buy a guide being the common one).

However, I will say that current business practices nowadays are more egregious than anything that came before. A lot of the experimentation and uniqueness older games had is gone now the industry has blown up and games are focus tested to appeal to as many people as possible ie creating boring and stale products. Even the indie scene which people praised as being a haven back to the "good old days" several years ago is now nothing more than a word used for marketing purposes. Video games in their current state is just an inevitable result of how any industry operates. When the profits go through the roof the shareholders want you to go even higher and that just means pumping out the most bland garbage designed to make you spend money on various mtx.


i'd unironically rather play Fortnite than grow up with an SNES.
the only benefit old video games had was rentals being everywhere. 90%+ of the SNES library was unplayable and people just hyperfocus on the few half dozen 10/10's and never discuss the rest lol.
people glamorize this shit and imagine an idealistic past where they're a kid and have Earthbound or something.
but im just thinking back to when i had a PS2 as a kid, and the few good games i had were by pure chance because i didnt know anybody else who had one and the gamestop employees were unhelpful.
whatd really end up happening if you were reborn as a le epic 80s kid is youd waste your christmas on a piece of shit sega saturn, and own a bunch of games AVGN makes fun of now like Bebe's Kids lol.
communication about whats worth playing was sparse to me even in the PS2 era, so i really doubt every epic 90s gamer had a telepathic ability to know to buy Metroid instead of Bebe's Kids.
gaming magazines have ALWAYS lied.

the twitter and 4chan/vr/ secondhand nostalgia ideal 90s kid:
"wanna play games with me? i have super contra and yoshi's island and gunstar hero"
the reality:
some hockey and pinball games coded in india and pink panther ps1 or something lol.
nobody knew what to buy and gems a 1 in 10,000, hidden beneath thousands of pieces of shit that people pretend don't exist during discussions now.


There has never been more games released as today and 99% of them are garbage. It was harder to publish a game back then and it filtered out the type of complete shit that fills Steam up daily.

Gaming magazines were useful for getting an idea of a games quality. And smart kids would buy second hand instead of new and only get new games for Christmas or Birthday. You would end up with 20-30 games per console and very few of them would be totally unplayable. You wouldn't be picking up Bebe's kids because it wasn't sold many places. While Nintendo products were every where.

The Saturn isn't a bad system. It's got some great titles worth playing on it. It did extremely well in Japan and it's mostly the US that stomped it into the ground. You could still get Virtua Fighter, Fighting vipers, NiGHTS, fighters mega mix, Sonic Jam, Tomb Raider, Daytona USA, Duke Nukem 3D and the list goes on and on. Saturn was a fine machine and was well worth your money at the time. It wasn't the 32X or the Sega CD, which sold like total shit for a reason.


Favourite old handheld? I wanna start playing video games again and a handheld without all the internet shite seems comfy.


Get an Ambernic 351p. It can emulate PS1 and below perfectly and has no built in internet. You put the roms in the folders and it just works.


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>I can use all my ammo on a cacodemon or… use the exact grenade kill they want me to.
>Once you kill 1 Caco with a grenade you have killed them all. Once
Jesus christ, people are just too stupid for this video game.You can use a single arbalest shot, a single lock on rocket, a single ballista pb ballista swap, a single d blade, etc and etc.

Its turned into a bit of a meme in the Eternal community, but holy hell man I expected wizchan to not be full of retarded casuals who never even TRIED to use anything else. The worst part is that nading them is literally one of the slowest and least effective manners possible, its mind boggling how stupid people are.

Someone once said this cacodemon thing is like the dishonoured playtest situation, and god they are so fucking right. People are literally just NPCs that can't think for themselves.


makes sense, thats why they made nu-doom for those play testers xd


Game developers found a way to make huge money with the least effort, some of them straight up release the same shitty game over and over again with just visual changes like Ubisoft and some do this in even a literal sense if you look at Bethesda with their thousand different remasters of one game over a decade faggotry. Even independent developers are just scammers with their shitty repetive simulator games that are just shallow and never at all like they get advertised, you'd think it will be a complex game and it just ends up being a walking simulator with mini games or quicktime events. Then there's also early access games that never get finished and if they ever get finished they won't get any updates except for in-game stuff to buy.

In game transactions is what put the final nail in the coffin of it all and that idea is based on normie mobile games.

Once they figured out that people are willing to pay money for shit they stopped putting effort in things, I think some time after 2008-10 it just went all downhill.

This is also a side-effect of normies btw, never forget that


Video games are inherently rigid in structure as they can only provide players an option that the developer thought of and specifically included. If the game tells you to do something most people think that's all the game is capable of doing. Experimentation should be encouraged if it has a benefit to the game. But I won't go around floor humping a call of duty map for secrets that aren't there.


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Its actually even worse than the Dishonored situation, because the thing is that the game LITERALLY TELLS YOU THAT ARBALEST DOES MORE DAMAGE TO FLYING ENEMIES. You pull it out one time, shoot a flying caco and say "wow, that oneshot him instantly. Maybe I should do that instead of nading the caco". I mean its not asking for much just for the player to use a different weapon or attachments on an enemy right? Thats the entire point of the game for fuck's sake! You never pull out a new weapon and say "hey maybe this weapon is good vs this guy?.

Maybe I'm out of touch and don't understand the NPC state of mind, but I just don't get how often I have to hear about this nade+cacodemon shit. Its not even like this is the only way of being rid of them either, like I said you can just lock on burst for an insta kill, use d blades (my favourite, because it even has a special animation for it, slices them in half like an apple lol), or just fucking shoot it twice with raw ballista.

No wonder game devs have such a hard time making good games, NPCs make up most of the population and even when you give them tutorials as an example to experiment, they just do what the tutorial says and never anything else the entire game. How the hell do you playtest your game properly when you have players like that giving you feedback?


You know I like experimentation in games, and I've never even played a doom game, but you seem really asshurt about this one thing so I'll just leave you be.


I am extremely asshurt about this sort of thing ruining games, you are correct. Its very frustrating to me being forced to read absolute garbage about the few games that are made for people who love video games. Especially when I come to smaller forums I come expecting a higher quality population of posters, but its impossible to find a community of real fans for anything anymore, its been infested by npcs as far as the eye can see.

I sit here and wonder how in god's name a dev is suppose to know what is or isn't a good feature. When the people who play video games are incompetent to such a degree that even when they add "PROTIP: THIS WEAPON IS GOOD VS THIS ENEMY" is still not enough to work, what can they do? Is it any wonder that movie games with more cutscenes than gameplay is what garners awards and acclaim? What else can you feed these subhumans? How can you expect anything else from them besides to sit and watch cutscenes like a zombie?

So yes, I am mad.


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I really hate to disappoint you, but wizchan is just slow reddit/4chan like the rest of the internet is as this point.

Also surely you must realize that if most people are "NPCs", then the devs are too, and so games are made by and for them.

We can talk about dishonored if you want though, I've played that.


I dont think devs are npcs, maybe a low amount, but if they are then they are high tier npcs.
Has always this been like this?, i believe there was a change in videogames quality because the target audience changed generation, from millenials to zoomers.


I really wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt but if all you wanna do is spew buzzwords and go down /v/ tier talking point I'll leave you to it.


Thats not me(guy you were previously talking to).

I wanted to go replay some dishonored for a bit before I replied back to you to refresh my memory. I just have to finish off Requiem: Avenging Angel before I do that since I'm really close to beating it.


oh, nevermind then.


>You can use common ammo in a gun you have no other use for or you can use your severely limited ammo supply on a weak enemy
Gee, I sure am retarded. Trying to save my limited ammo pool for harder enemies. Who would do that? It's almost like the game's limited ammo might ENCOURAGE PLAYERS TO SAVE BETTER AMMO FOR HARDER ENEMIES.

>use d blades (my favourite, because it even has a special animation for it, slices them in half like an apple lol)
And here you can spot the child ruining FPS games on full display.
Yea, fuck off fag. Enjoy your shitty cut scenes while people who aren't colossal retards play better games.

The irony if repeating the NPC meme is surely lost on you. Repeating a meme is peak NPC and you proudly repeat one claiming you're smarter than everyone else. Despite you having to follow text promotes in a Doom game and posting the same memes again and again.

The biggest NPC is the zoomer. Trained from birth to be retarded.

>You don't like my extremely restrictive game full of neon colours and over the top animations! STOP RUINING VIDEO GAMES
Mean while I'm over here looking at Halo 20 years ago giving players complete freedom and saying "See that huge scarab over there? Do what you want. Maybe drive a mongoose off a cliff to land on it. Or shoot it's legs out with a rocket launcher… Yea, you can do something cooler than us killing it in a stock animation so have fun".

Yea. Players wanting freedom are ruining games because retards like you want narrow gameplay pre-digested and shit in their mouth.


>save ammo
>in a game built around having unlimited ammo
The single argument you tried to make only points out that you are in fact too stupid for the game. The rest of your post reads straight out of 4chad /v/. You were objectively wrong about the game which I proved with video + picture evidence, and your post is nothing more than incoherent rage because you have no argument. Your lack of intelligence and brainless inability to experiment for yourself is the cancer that kills video games. Judging by the quality of your posts and how many buzzwords you use per sentence, you also kill forums too. Last reply from me.


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Alright I'm back from playing Dishonored for a bit.

Wizchan certainly gets worse and worse everytime I come back here, I can't even browse /wiz/ or /dep/ anymore without getting angry. However I still expected the hobby boards to be better than this sorry state. I wonder where all the smart people on the internet went? Maybe just buried under the sea of normalfags, wondering around like me.

Anyways, I think Game Devs must be better than normal consumers overall because they take a pay hit in order to program for something they enjoy. Maybe not the EA/Activation guys working on Fifa/CoD #292, but the rest must be better than the general population of gamers. The hardest part for them I think is just making games that sell, they want to make good games but finding the audience for their games is hard when its made for real video game fans. Cloudbuilt is an example of a fucking 10/10 game if you like 3d platforming, but they couldn't even enough money to make a sequel and now are basically all split apart. Desync is another game I loved to hell, but it was a game that demanded the player actually think and learn for themselves, again not enough money to make another game - studio disbanded. So many great devs are probably stuck making movie games for NPCs, simply because its all they can get the NPC to buy, and they make up most of the market.

Dishonored is a fun game, not a super amazing game for myself (not the biggest stealth guy), but it gives the player a lot of freedom which I enjoy. It is a bit handholdy at times though, and the difficulty even on the highest setting is probably still too easy. Its a lovely game to just tool around with the stupid ai - setting a trap down and then pushing a guard ontop of it is a lot of dumb fun. The game is great about ensuring you have 2-3 ways to enter any place or deal with any situation. I think Crysis 2 really took a lot from that angle, it had this visor that showed off multiple routes you could use in any battle arena it set up. Speaking of other games, have you played the Nu-Wolfenstein series? I ask because Arkane studios worked on the newest one "Youngblood", and man its so obvious in the level design, which I would say is what makes Dishonoured an interesting game to play at all. All the different vertical pathways you can climb on, sewers you can crawl through, the well placed cover so you can go right down the middle, they really are amazing at it.


you're literally repeating the garbage /v/ does.

>Unlimited ammo

Sure, if you want to constantly watch cut scenes instead of play the game. I sure do enjoy those glory kill animations. I just can't get enough of them! I only play games to watch glory kills.


I remember skipping all of the dialogue and cut scenes in the witcher 3
>intro recap-skip
>old witcher trying to flesh out gera-skip
>quest npc sob story-skip
>where is jen-skip
don't care just let me play already ffs, someone in the dev team realized this and added a notice board.


I only played about half of the first nu-wolfenstein, it wasn't really for me. Didn't know arkane worked on youngblood. For some reason I'm not into their other games too much, I tried prey and was really close to liking it but something just wasn't clicking for me.


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Oh yea I think basically all of the Nu-Wolfenstein games were terrible honestly, Machine Games couldn't design a level to save their lives, and its full of so much awful cinematic design. Unsurprisingly of AAA, most of them have barely more gameplay than cutscene running time. However Youngblood had some of the same level essence that Arkane is famous for, its also the only game in the series to focus on gameplay over being cinematic. Its still a pretty mediocre game (held back by its lootershooter aspects imo), but its the best in the series. Never understood the hype for the other NuWolfenstein games, they play like a CoD game except with decent hipfire and more guns - as if that's enough to make a good game. Serve up the same old cinematic hitscan cover game but with a "retro throwback" tag and I guess that's enough for NPCs. Yet the best game in the series gets trashed because it had "cringe" female protags, as if story matters more than gameplay in a video game…

I still need to play the new Prey (and Deathloop, just waiting for a good sale to grab it for $20 or less), technically I played it for a bit but I ended up dropping it after an hour or two. Prey 2006 is something I played through, and it was a darn good game focusing around set pieces that were actually interesting and fun to play instead of the usual Half Life/Uncharted chase scene garbage. My favourite was walking on the mini planets and fighting enemies while changing gravity. Easy the best of the ID tech 4 games, not that its a particularity impressive award to win lol.


I bought and played death loop and while it's worth checking out, I would pirate it if you can. The online aspect adds nothing at all. Another arkane game that was so close to being good. It's like a worse dishonored but still pretty fun and has a cool aesthetic. The time loop gimmick isn't that great though, cause the game starts feeling samey very quick.


First I need to beat the NuPrey… and the 101 games I bought in the last Steam summer sale. 16 of those are done at least already. I do know Deathloop was said to be pretty good by people who aren't obsessed with politics, so I for sure at some point want to get to it… one day.

Speaking of backlogs, I'm almost finished playing nearly every major FPS game people talk about. I just need to grind out FEAR2/3 and then do the 6DOF games and I'm basically set (if you have any uniche fps recs I'm open to them). You have any backlog or goals you work towards? I can't wait to finish these fps games and get back to working on Ninja Gaiden 3 Razor's Edge on Ultimate Ninja, then its summer sale backlog grinding again.


I tried Deathloop yesterday and it has 2 major problems.

First it plays like shit. All Arkane games play terribly, it's like input delay or bad dead zones. I can't put my finger on it but it feels gummy and it's annoying.

The niggers are just marvel characters. I'm clearly not a fan of TEH NIGGER GAME but I was willing to play a time loop blackxploitation game. Julia I think her name was is exactly the same modern bitchy succubus as every other marvel inspired cunt. She never shuts up and makes constant one lines and LE QUIRKY PSYCHO succubus XD trope to the letter. Colt never shuts up either and floating text every where gets old really fast.

It's a generic blob of a game outside of that. It's not really good at any thing and who wants to stand around listening to people talk so you can far cry tag one of them? It feels awful to play, it's tedious and the cast are annoying. It failed for all the right reasons.

Prey is…. okay. It has a lot of issues and feels just as gummy but it's a slower exploration game where combat is rarely a good idea so you can look past it a bit.


>Yet the best game in the series gets trashed because it had "cringe" female protags, as if story matters more than gameplay in a video game…
It's not story, it's "Is this game appealing, is it cool?" if you stick two dyke looking cunts on the cover, you can take a guess it's not, it's pretty basic, I don't want to engage with some puke inducing feminist larp fantasy thanks. If you can ignore that and play the game that's your prerogative (even though you're perpetuating garbage) but you aren't above anyone just because you don't have proper standards.


>it's like input delay or bad dead zones.
No idea what you are talking about. The only issue with their controls is the standard issues that come with magnetized attacks/ledge grabs.
Speak like a human being.

Go back to pol or /v/, I play video games for gameplay, not politics.


>Stop describing things in accurate terms
We can tell you like the modern political garbage in games. "Hello fellow kids" doesn't work when you're a faggot.



lol scam citizen is really something else, how much of that is crowdfunded?


>I play video games for gameplay, not politics.
I am the anon who played deathloop and while I agree with you in principle, when the devs want to shove it in my face then it become my problem. Nothing in deathloop or nu-prey ever felt like it was preaching to me but there are definitely games that do, borderlands being a particularly egregious example. I can only give so much lee way before I just can't support a dev who is being obnoxious.


If you don't like the story then just skip it. I don't bother talking about the story in Nu-Wolfenstein games because whats the point? A Nazi story written in the modern day, you already know what the results are going to be. I just skip the cutscenes and dialog when possible, lower the volume of voices if I can. A bad story doesn't ruin a video game, bad gameplay ruins a video game.

I understand that it annoys people who align """right""" wing, but I'm playing video games here - not debating politics. Art reflects whoever has power because whoever has power is what is teaching children and feeding NPCs their worldview. Accept reality, both that the dreaded """left""" wing is currently in power, and that you have no effect on that. Stories aren't being made to pander to you, but if the gameplay is good/bad then the game is good/bad and thats the end result.

Its just the result of those who look at everything politically vs those who just want to play video games for what they are. The politics of the video game don't matter, "Cuckold Simulator" doesn't become a good game because it panders to 4chan sensibilities, the game sucks because the gameplay does and thats a real gamer's take. A politcal drone buys that game simply because its from "his side", but I don't care about what "side" any game is from. Is a game is good, then its good.


oh look suddenly they're trying the politics/culture war tactic again, that was random…


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And of course these same posters are the ones who can't even play video games competently. They spend more time crying about politics than they do playing video games. Leading to situations were they spew forth misinformation about games just like what happened in this very thread.

Wizchan is falling to pieces, the other boards are full of succubi screeching about crabs 24/7 and the hobby boards are full of political drones who don't even enjoy the hobby of the board.


bro goldeneye007 on the n64 was a banger


So if there was a game about mutilating children's genitals but the gameplay was good would you be recommending it this hard?

Media you choose to put inside your head influences how you see the world. You cannot escape that your brain is elastic and will consider abnormal things normal if they see them daily. Kids who grow up in houses with domestic abuse find violence to be normal. During the North Hollywood shoot out one guy had a south American maid. During a shoot out with 2 guys carrying fully automatic rifles (not just 1) she thought it was so normal to hear gun fire outside she wanted to walk out into it. That's how insanely adaptable the human brain is and you're saying "Consume the media, gameplay is all that matters", as if you're not directly trying to fuck up people's heads by making them thing this shit is normal.

You can discuss these topics and be good at games. People good at games don't tend to broadcast it around.

If you're good at -a- game you're probably a fag who's just grinded a lot any way. I could say I'm good at hard games and it wouldn't mean shit because I burnt 1,000 hours of my life playing From games or Devil May cry. Being good is repetitive action until you have muscle memory for every situation and despite the time I've thrown down the drain on Elden Ring this week, I'd rather be good at a skill or craft I can be productive with than a MLG pro or whatever the big leagues full of Korean ladyboys are this week.

Probably one of the trolls infesting the site these days but
>Zoomer slang
>Talking about a bad N64 game
Golden eye was neat for the time but console FPS didn't really function until the Xbox huge and especially the 360. Golden eye's input isn't there and the weird auto aim/manual aim thing is really wonky. Some asshole is using the same system in a "new" FPS that was up on steam's demo festival thing. It was fucking awful to need a manual aim button in an FPS with how easy it is to aim with mouse or controller these days.


>Media you choose to put inside your head influences how you see the world.
t. boomer still trying to ban violent video games/movies. Just go back to /pol/ already.

>If you're good at -a- game you're probably a fag who's just grinded a lot any way.

Oh so people who are good at video games play a lot of video games, in other words if political drones spent less time crying about politics such as yourself - they wouldn't spew misinformation about games. Exactly what I said, if you don't like video games and don't play them, then don't come and shit up discussion about irrelevant political issues. Especially I ask that these people don't come and make comments about games they not only can't competently play, but also made no effort to learn and then blame the game for their own inability to experiment.


>t. boomer still trying to ban violent video games/movies.
Explain why you oppose banning or censoring media.


Very funny post, but you know what I meant.


I don't know what you mean, no. Can you explain your position?


Gets more funny with each post…


Violent media normalizes violence. It's not a hard thing to grasp. Playing games full of fags and trannies does make people start saying they're trannies and gay. So the same argument applies to violence.

Slender man game lead 2 succubi to kill their friend. She would still be alive if the games didn't exist.

>You're bad at video games because you like political discussion!

That's not how it works. Are you the same retard defending Doom eternal?
>I cannot explain why censoring things isn't acceptable, it just isn't okay?
Censorship is a vital tool in a healthy society.




>Censorship is a vital tool in a healthy society.
The wiz you're replying to agrees with you.




No argument then?

You can't defend total non-censorship unless you want to defend CP being sold on every street corner on every town in the world. Or it being broadcast curing children's TV slots next to McDonalds happy meal commercials.

Censorship is by nature essential.


And I want to play cool video games, apparently you don't, so keep being an ignorant pleb who thinks talking about why modern games are unappealing is irrelevant because "durrr it doesn't affect gameplay" - you're probably one of those retards who would say it doesn't matter what my character looks like in an fps because you only see their hands, fucking retard.


It would be nice if you stopped crying about a handful of people dying from violence supposedly attributable to playing games and instead about stuff killing significant amounts of people every year. Sorry that you believed yourself to be making a compelling argument instead of a dumb brainfart only worth mockery.


> it doesn't matter what my character looks like in an fps because you only see their hands
That would be objectively correct.


If gameplay was truly all that mattered to you then you'd only ever play rogue, dwarf fortress and zork. Video games are more than just gameplay.


Why would i play those games if I wanted good gameplay?


are you stupid?


Then you would be objectively a pleb, it's very typical of the average gamer retard to act smug despite having a lesser understanding and appreciation for what makes something good or tasteful. If you don't care about visuals or art direction then your opinion is worthless and you can sit outside while hobby enjoyers with actual higher level thought have a dialogue.


Gameplay>everything else.
If you care about art direction so much then go watch movies, anime, and paintings. I'm here to PLAY video games.


CYOA isn't gameplay?


>Gameplay>everything else.
The joke is on you then, considering that woke devs have a very inferior gameplay than games from the past. And that brings the question of why someone would try to defend them citing this aspect, aside of being an excuse for every other aspect being inferior too.


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Considering Ultrakill is one the greatest fps games ever made and its entire dev team are turbo homosexual "woke" faggots, you are just flat out wrong. You don't have to agree with the politics, but you do have to agree with the gameplay.


Nobody is talking about this or that individual game. People in the thread is talking about a trend, and the trend is modern games being way more inferior to games of the same genre from the past. There are of course good games that exist today, but they belong exclusively to the indie field (like the example you're giving). And indies are basically just starting in their surge and are what amount to countertrend, which just proves the whole thing.

Modern games were already being inferior way before the woke came. Wokism just came to kill what little was left.


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Nice narrative swap, first its because of being "woke", now its about AAA games? Meanwhile AAA is doing amazing as well. Modern games are perfectly fine, if not even better than the past.

Maybe if you stopped being a politically obsessed dumbshit and played video games instead of crying so much, you would find out that out yourself.


Two of your examples are Japanese made games, the other one was a game that came out 10 years ago. A bit of an embarrassing thing to post while saying everything is okay. So thanks for proving my point I guess.


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And another narrative swap, so its not being woke and its not being AAA that effect anything, now its simply not being Japanese! Maybe its some specific infallible quality that doesn't fucking exist because you don't even play any fucking games to know what it is you are complaining about! Do you even think at all? I could contuine posting games for you to play, but instead you'll sit here and shift every narrative you make while never playing a single game.

Its funny because dishonoured is from a "woke" western studio who continues to make "woke" games with good gameplay. Or what, did you think they stopped making games after that one? And "10 years ago", what the fuck is modern games then? Only the past two years? You're a narrative swapping faggot who changes goalposts every single I prove you wrong.

I'm not going to bother replying anymore after this because its obvious that you aren't here for a serious discussion on games, you're just looking to shit up the /games/ board with political nonsense. Andrew our worthless sack of shit moderator should ban you and remove your awful posts, but luckily for you its wizchan 2022 so worthless cancer posters like you can take a big crap wherever you like.


I don't buy this stunt one bit, the guy stirring up the pot and the other dude helping him.
staged outrage me thinks


Caught me, I set this whole thing up with me and my jewish cabal intent on destroying the video game board of a website where people are [supposed] to be virgins. One step wizchan's /games/ board, next step the world WHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


This reply looks like it was directed to another imaginary person in your head. If you stopped to make assumptions for a moment maybe you could actually give a coherent answer instead of doing what it is the equivalent to discuss with yourself.

Anyway, let's analyse the games you have posted so far:
- Nioh 2 (2 years ago) and The World Ends With You (15 years ago) are RPGs, both from Japan.
- Dishonored (10 years ago), Doom reboot (6 years ago), Titanfall 2 (6 years ago) and Ultrakill (2 years ago, but still in early access) are FPS.
- Alien Isolation (8 years ago) is a survival-horror.

So that makes:
- 7 games in total.
- From 3 different genres.
- Only 2 of them from less than 5 years ago, and 1 of these 2 is still in development.
- Another 2 were made in Japan.

With all of this, anyone could ask what the point trying to be made was?
That modern videogames are in the best shape ever and everything is okay? Yet 5 of 7 games posted were released from 5 to 15 years ago.
That woke games aren't really bad? Yet most games posted weren't from woke developers. And 2 of them were from Japan, which is very well known to have little to no wokeness at all.

Is very funny but is almost like you were trying to prove exactly the opposite of these points. No doubt the result of the inability to actually prove them in the first place and probably the reason why the need of assumptions and imaginary people for replying back.


>The World Ends With You (15 years ago
Stopped reading here, you don't play games and can't even google properly. Every game posted was within 10 years and NEO Twenwy came out last year. You don't even deserve this reply.


>The only other recent title is from Japan
Lol ok.


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What does it matter, I can post an unlimited amount of games, but you will never accept that you're wrong because you are a dumbass polnigger.


WHY you keep posting games that are not from woke developers? Your entirely point was that it didn't matter if the game was woke or not.


I'm done here polnigger, no one who reads this conversation would ever take you seriously. If we had proper moderation on wizchan you would be banned for posting the way you do.


and finally for people lurking the thread still and want to learn about rhetoric vs reality, a reminder that Arkane Studios, id Software, and Respawn Entertainment are included on the infamous /v/ "wokism" polnigger collages here >>58079 and >>58083. Yet the same polniggers will claim these companies aren't woke just to attempt a fraudulent comeback in an argument. They don't play any games at all, they just spew political diarrhea to ruin any and all discussion about video games.


>Woke doesn't matter!
>Post games from not-woke developers
>Recent games are in perfect state!
>Post games from years ago
>You're [boogeyman]
>Uses an insult from said boogeyman

Looool ok buddy.


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You shouldn't be so quick to dismiss games lacking gameplay, as there are games that prioritize art or storytelling above gameplay that are worth playing. Neither should we dismiss games that engage in contemporary issues of identity and historicity, as there are only so many formulaic and reactionary boomershooters you can play before losing the will to live


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I think its right to dismiss all games lacking gameplay, because you can't have a game without gameplay. You are certainly free to prioritize anything you want from art to story, and I have played quite a few such "games". However can I really pretend like Journey, Observation, or Firewatch is a better videoGAME over Ninja Gaiden 2, Tetris, or Mirror's Edge? I somewhat enjoyed my time with all three of the former "games", but they aren't good videogames. If I can take away the art, the music, the narrative (narrative that is not part of gameplay, eg you have no real influence over how it develops); and end up with a shitty video game no one wants to play, then the game sucks. Ninja Gaiden 2 remains a fun game even if it was wire frames for models, the dialog removed, and no music plays. Imagine playing Firewatch with those restrictions, what a laugh!

Especially to me a story doesn't matter in a video game unless you tie gameplay to it. Meaning that you give the player choicse to make in that story constantly - choices that drastically effect the gameplay's result. Older RPG's and obviously CYOA fall into this, even if I don't care for them much because its not my style of video game, I still respect it for being a GAME over a book/movie.


>Ninja Gaiden 2 remains a fun game even if it was wire frames for models, the dialog removed, and no music plays
No it fucking wouldn't. That's like saying a great movie would still be interesting if you just read the script, or a great novel that you only read the synopsis of.


>No it fucking wouldn't
Yeah it would, theres a reason people say it has the best combat out of all action games and it will always at least fall into top 3 along with DMC/Bayo.

>That's like saying a great movie would still be interesting if you just read the script

Opposite of that actually, a movie doesn't need a script to exist. Koyaanisqatsi literally had no plot and it's a film classic. A movie only needs one thing to be a movie - motion picture. A game only needs one thing to be a game - gameplay.


>Opposite of that actually, a movie doesn't need a script to exist. Koyaanisqatsi literally had no plot and it's a film classic.
You missed the point of that analogy. If a movie took away its music, cinematography, acting etc. it would cease to be a compelling movie. Same with a video game, because there's a word you keep missing. They aren't games they are VIDEO games. If ninja gaiden had ONLY game play it wouldn't even be wireframe cause that includes basic character models and animations. You'd essentially have two cubes to denote entities with numbers being exchanged whenever you press a button to represent combat, and the square would simply move through space when you dodged or moved. No graphics, no sound effects, no animations. Trying to imagine bayonetta with none of that would be a boring awful game.

Consider some of the most "gameplay heavy" genres like RTS or dungeon crawlers. Strip away everything down to just the gameplay and they would essentially be interactive excel spreadsheets. You can't have a video game without the video.


>You missed the point of that analogy
>took away its cinematography
No you missed the point, because cinematography IS the movie, in the same way gameplay IS the game.
>You'd essentially have two cubes to denote entities with numbers being exchanged whenever you press a button to represent combat
Nope, animations and sound cues are a very important thing in action games. Its why the great games are always "stylish", because the "over the top" nature of them makes for easy ways to have incredibly recognizable attacks and cues. For an opposite example - take Hwoarang's kicks in Tekken games, a large complaint about him from new players is that in his stances they have no idea what is happening due to all of his attacks being different variations of kicks - which makes recognizing what is or isn't a certain attack and its properties very hard. On the opposite end you have something like Kazuya whose body contorts in unnatural ways that would give his attacks no power behind them IRL, but they are iconic and what they do is recognizable the second after you get hit once by them. Not only that aspect is important, but because these games are in 3d they need animations to represent the hitbox being used, simple numbers would be entirely impossible to communicate to players in any timely fashion what is happening on screen.
>RTS hey would essentially be interactive excel spreadsheets.
Sure that sounded smart in your head, but you've clearly never played one in your life. Positioning around maps, kiting with ranged units, getting a pincer maneuver with melees, reacting to raids on your eco, planning where building should or shouldn't be placed based on how you are being attacked, etc all are important aspects to that genre that can't be replicated with excel spreadsheets. Maybe you are talking about some RTS I don't know about, but from Warcraft, AOE2, Starcraft, etc then is just a delusional statement.

I get that you want to pretend like what I said before is ridiculous, but maybe think more about why games are made the way they are for a reason. Acting like the gameplay of RTS can be boiled down to an excel sheet or that animations hold no purpose in a 3d action game is frankly just the result of someone who hasn't thought enough about game design. Which is fine, at least its better than some political retard speaking with me like before, but wizchan is a pretty slow board, you can sit on a thought for a few days and come back to reply to me if you haven't really thought about this topic much.


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Also I realized you might not play or know Tekken, so here are two random gifs I found that sort of show off what I mean. You can see Kazuya's legs literally spin like a helicopter blade, entirely unnatural flare, but its animation makes it incredibly distinct to the player compared to Hwoarang's standard human-like kicks which he has like 7 different variations of.


And all those things like animations and sound cues aren't gameplay. They are window dressing that you have previously dismissed. And yes RTS could easily be simulated on excel with a macro and a grid. Well it wouldn't be fast enough to be exactly real time but it would be the same essential thing.

I've noticed that every time you say someone is wrong it's because they just aren't as hardcore a gamer as you and need to play more games. Get your head out your ass.

I really feel like you're just proving my point now. The gameplay would be actively made worse by not having all the extras that you are dismissing.


>And all those things like animations and sound cues aren't gameplay.
Thats literally gameplay, you can't have a 3d action game without 3d hitboxes and 3d animations for those hitboxes. Making these animations recognizable to players is part of good gameplay.
>and yes RTS could easily be simulated on excel
No it literally couldn't, an excel sheet has no 2d space. How can you kite enemies in real time on a spreadsheet? Its illogical. I understand you really want this point to work, but it doesn't function for anything that isn't D&D or some other turn based pure rpg.
>they just aren't as hardcore a gamer
I didn't say you weren't a hardcore gamer, I said you haven't thought about this topic enough. Which is clear when you immediately rush in to post about how RTS can be played in an excel sheet or that 3d action games don't need animations to convey gameplay. I just suggested to take your time and argue with yourself about your ideas before you hit post.


Listen you said that you don’t need sound or graphics, just wire frame. And then you proceed to show how gameplay is enhanced by adding stylized flair so a move is recognizable. So tell me, do graphics and sound matter or not?


I never said no sound or graphics, to directly quote myself (which you also did at one point in green text) "wire frames for models, the dialog removed, and no music plays". Sound cues that notify the player of what is happening is extremely important to gameplay, If you want to go back to old times, classic Doom's enemies let out a noise when they are alarmed to you, each one has a different sound. In death each enemy plays a sound, animations too, to signify an attack or again to show when dead. When enemies teleport in they use a sound which is extremely important for letting the player why and where enemies are coming from. These aspects ARE gameplay. What is NOT gameplay is irrelevant narrative, irrelevant music, and artstyles that don't serve any purpose beyond to look pretty.


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I did find some enjoy enjoyment out of Stanley Parable just like the other narrative/artstyle games I mentioned before, it has a hilarious narration where the "narrative" reacts to what YOU do as a player. HOWEVER, its still just sort of like a comedy movie, a one trick pony where you just walk around and listen to someone talk. I can't reasonably call it a great game, even if it was one of the best "walking simulators" I played. I'm glad you also gave these types of games a shot, so often I see people dismiss them, but without playing them for themselves. Of course these types who don't plays are always hyperbolic about how dreadful some games are, so I appreciate someone who tried them out himself even if they are a "gameplay first" person.

I do understand people not liking the "niggers and trannies" aka the "wokeness", its just I don't get making the entire criticism about a game on it being "pozzed" or "woke". Like yeah sure you didn't like the story or whatever, but if the gameplay is good then who the hell cares? I mean hell the story in most games is straight up awful even when they aren't "woke", Ninja Gaiden is just flat out stupid in every single scene. At one point you get this completely serious cutscene where Ryu appears to just stare at some chick's breasts the entire time and then fucks off transforming into a bird after saying "its over", its pure unintentional comedy gold.

Nu-doom is soooo old school philosophy, its a very intense game and extremely "clicky" apm stuff, but if your into that adhd fps sort of thing like me, not much else is going to top it. Feels like every graphic, every sound, every animation, its all there to help you play the game. The GDC talks about Doom 2016 are a fun watch even if you don't like the games. Allot of cool stuff about their token system for attacks and making sure enemies stay out in the open for you to shoot in order to keep it fast paced and arcadey. The devs who made it are some real gamers for sure.

You are right about arguments not ending nicely in most cases, but I kind of like using them to soundboard my own thoughts sometimes or just to maybe see someone else's views. Of course who knows, sometimes people admit to being wrong once in a blue moon, I've done it before, but it is a hard thing to do I'll admit from first hand.


>I do understand people not liking the "niggers and trannies" aka the "wokeness", its just I don't get making the entire criticism about a game on it being "pozzed" or "woke". Like yeah sure you didn't like the story or whatever, but if the gameplay is good then who the hell cares?
Because unlike you who has no backbone, I don't like being spat on by hostile devs who add intentionally unappealing characters to a game or remove sexy bitches because to do otherwise would be "objectifying" succubi (feminist rhetoric that simply means men shouldnt enjoy themselves - "woke" just means feminist). Before you insinuate I play games to jack off and not play them, nice try, it's actually about the principle, something a "dude gameplay is the only thing that matters bro!!11!!" disingenuous smugtard wouldn't understand. Implying character design doesn't matter, implying people don't play games to enjoy embodying a cool character.

>I mean hell the story in most games is straight up awful even when they aren't "woke", Ninja Gaiden is just flat out stupid in every single scene. At one point you get this completely serious cutscene where Ryu appears to just stare at some chick's breasts the entire time and then fucks off transforming into a bird after saying "its over", its pure unintentional comedy gold.

Yes because it's not about the story as I explained in my first post, here you just highlighted why older games were better, it's pure and unadulterated and apologetically appeals to the male audience (cool ninjas, dumb jokes and boobies), untouched by the bad faith actors who now infest the industry. The intent behind creative decisions matters in the same way I'm not going to eat food I know the chef has spat in, apparently you would though because it's only the taste that matters amirite.


I didn’t mention woke at all. I just think you can’t have a video game with nothing but gameplay. We’d call that a board game.

Music is a sound cue too, for example the detected theme in MGS. You can’t separate sound design and music, nor can you separate graphic design from the game play. Pong is really as gameplay purist as it gets, and even then it has little sound cues whenever you hit the ball that are entirely not needed for the gameplay to function.


>the detected theme in MGS
You already have the sound cue for that, its rather famous actually. Music holds no real place in regards to gameplay, the closest it gets is with rhythm games. Even still, often times rhythm games notes have barely anything to do with what music is being played.

Graphic design can be separate from gameplay, and in fact graphics often detracts from it. A complaint I often have about fps games are explosions covering up the screen because their graphics are too extravagant and linger for too long. Serious Sam 3 is a perfect example of this, where a c4 explosion is practically a smoke grenade with how ridiculous the explosion particle are. Another example of graphics detracting from gameplay is Turbo Ultrakill, its so hard to see enemies the devs actually had to add an option to outline enemies and its STILL easy to miss them.

Sound cues are part of gameplay, pong's hit confirmation sound is teaching you the timing for when hitboxes collide. The game survives without its existence, but so would it survive is half your controllable box that you slide around was invisible and the ball would skip frames of its animation to where its going. All of these things exist to create gameplay and give information to the player, cue are extremely important in all forms they come, and humans actually react to sound faster than visuals. The average reaction time for humans is 0.25 seconds to a visual stimulus, 0.17 for an audio stimulus, and 0.15 seconds for a touch stimulus.


Not even worth a response. End yourself polnigger.


The dilemma we seem to have is that you include things in gameplay that I consider distinct from it.


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Think about it like this, in an FPS game how can you know where an enemy is if its not in your limited fov? The player needs indication for where enemies are and even jacked up to 120 fov, you don't even have half the possible area around you visible. So the gameplay literally requires sound in order to function. Serious Sam games are incredible at this aspect actually, very often you are simply in a large area with enemies streaming in from all sides, so its very important that the distinct clopping of a kleer exists so you know what side and how far away each one is. Its a shame so many FPS designers don't even recognize how important it is to gameplay and often don't even bother with footstep noises at all.

I would argue the dilemma is that you want to argue from an extreme reductionist angle that for instance you can "play games" by simply typing out 1's and 0's and thus gameplay is nothing but that, which to you justifies the existence and promotion of useless additive things such as narratives that the player has no effect over. Personally I think your concern is more focused on making my stance invalid by speaking in absurd manners as a counterpoint, then actually having a coherent take about gameplay or what matters in a game.


Yeah because you don't have one because you're simply on the other side of the /v/etard spectrum you hate so much, no better than the people you mock, dumb cunt.

>correctly identify why modern games are ugly and lame

>"noooooo u cant talk about anything other than gameplay because i have no aesthetic sensibilities and see everything in binary 101110 digits and project that onto people with actual standards go back to pol aaaaaa"


I just don't get why you think music and graphics are so unnecessary when you very clearly have an appreciation for their role in game play. Yeah story usually sucks so I don't really care about that, but music and art make miles of difference. Take katamari for example. the game play is super simple, and would honestly be a pretty mediocre game if you were just a ball rolling up indistinct cubes. But the upbeat music, the little bings when you pick stuff up, the silly graphics with prince and the king, all make it so much more than just snowball simulator.

Even the scene you posted here in Journey >>58337 is made ten times better with the music that sounds fun and light as you ski down the sand with the carpet creatures.

To go back to what you said though, for example sound in an FPS isn't necessary, you could have those garbage fire indicators or enemy radar, but like you said people react faster to sound. You could design a game with only gameplay, but it seriously would detract from it. Gameplay is usually in service of the idea of the game. Imagine if ninja gaiden was a puzzle game instead or something, it would be completely incongruous with the rest of its design.


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Very good post, and that confusion about what makes a game good is too true. The challenge of a game is a must, over time I realized that fail-states are integral to video games themselves, even if that fail state is not directly punishing, there must be some degree of mastery available to attain over the game. Its why I think games like CYOA or old school rpgs are still real games, simply because the story/dialog is in fact important and leads to fail states. If you mash through dialog in those games, what happens? Well you probably end up saying something in the game that causes some troll or evil wizard to come instantly kill you. Alternatively you end up with no idea what to do because your quest's goals were explained in that very dialog.

Speaking of scavenger hunts, have you ever seen this game called Hidden Folks? I recently played it because I used to complete Where's Waldo books and other scavenger hunt type books. Really was like a video format of them, just purely looking for certain objects over and over again. Obviously as we both agree, its not a "great" game, but it was a kick in the ol nostalgia bone for sure.


>I just don't get why you think music and graphics are so unnecessary when you very clearly have an appreciation for their role in game play.
Because they don't have one, music especially is the most superfluous of all. Often times it actually gets in the way of sound cues, and it could be replaced by any music of your choice with no effect on the gameplay what so ever. I already brought up before how graphics can be an active detriment too. Story falls into the same two categories, it (generally speaking, depending on the game) could be removed with no effect on the gameplay.

That scene is journey is visually interesting, and musically is whatever, but its not a good video game scene. The gameplay is boring and uninteresting and the second you remove its pretty pointless background the "game" would be universally declared bad. It has more in common with movies - motion pictures, than it does with games.

>To go back to what you said though, for example sound in an FPS isn't necessary, you could have those garbage fire indicators or enemy radar, but like you said people react faster to sound. You could design a game with only gameplay, but it seriously would detract from it.

You could replace everything with typing out 1's and 0's though, like I said, the problem is that you are more concerned with attacking my stance than having any reasonable one yourself. If something serves a gameplay function, then its part of gameplay. Music holds no basically almost no purpose in gameplay, its not gameplay. Pretty backgrounds are quiet literally pointless, they aren't gameplay. Stories the vast majority of time hold nothing of gameplay value, its not gameplay. I think my stance is simple to explain and reasonable to defend, games like Journey are fun to watch, but the gameplay just isn't there, its not a good game.


>music serves no gameplay purpose
We just went over how music is a sound cue. In monster hunter for example the music changes based on what you’re hunting, whether it has noticed you, or whether it’s enraged. And yeah MGS has the detection sound but the detected music is just as recognizable and serves the exact same function were the cue not there. Any music or graphics that get in the way of gameplay are just bad music and graphics, the same that game play without audio and visual cues would be bad gameplay. Animations are graphics, sound is music, you seem to like these things yet say they add nothing. Even a background is part of gameplay. For example the poison swamp levels in souls games immediately bring attention to the player “you will get poisoned here buckle up and bring healing”. Or the ice levels in Mario are slippery. You keep picking apart the games and saying “no only this matters” when games are sums of their parts.

You keep declaring that I’m just trying to make your stance unreasonable but I’m not even attacking you.


Disgusting and blatant samefagging all over the thread.
Stop arguing with yourself to pretend you have any kind of credibility, woketard.


Music CAN be used as a sound cue (its a very poor one and generally only used because its expected to have music at all times), but that's not what you are arguing in favor of music for. Journey's scene is not using music as a sound cue for anything. The reality when you aren't looking for exceptions, is that music in video games holds no real gameplay purpose. Even in its exceptions, its poor in its execution and having the sound cue being MUSIC instead of any other sound has no real reason besides "well we are already playing music, so we might as well use it for something". Its purpose is justified by its pre-existance.

Animations are technically graphics yes, music is technically sound yes. Are you looking for a gotcha moment or a conversation? I think we both know why I used these terms separately, you noticing I separate these terms signifies that you do.

A background is different than a foreground, having visual cues for what is poison and what is ice is good yes - because the gameplay of being poisoned and sliding is a part of the…gameplay. Having a sunset with sandy buildings in the background such as in the Journey scene, is not gameplay related. You are relating a foreground visual cue tied to gameplay, with a background that literally serves no gameplay purpose besides to look pretty. It doesn't work.

Sorry if my usage of "attacking" was offensive, but you are indeed looking to disprove my stance which is attackinge. Yet your own stance is left unattended to, where gameplay is merely 1's and 0's which is ridiculous in nature and could also technically be applied to graphics and sound as well. Keen to look for any possible ways music might pretend to be gameplay related, but praising its use in non gameplay related sections mere posts before, its what happens when you focus on disproving someone else's theory rather than crafting your own coherent one.


> Are you looking for a gotcha moment or a conversation?
No I just think we're on the same page you just don't realize it.
>Yet your own stance is left unattended to, where gameplay is merely 1's and 0's which is ridiculous in nature and could also technically be applied to graphics and sound as well.
I have no reason to diminish gameplay, I realize I sounded like I was. I mean I play video games, most people play them for the game play. I've even tried playing some games just because they had a sexy character or a mechanic I thought would be cool but they just don't hold water if the game play is no good. All I really want is for you to acknowledge a video game is more than just game play, but you seem to be saying that everything more gussied up than pacman is not only unnecessary but actively detrimental to the game.


I don't really think we are on the same page at all, you feel a connection because you misunderstood me at first and when I assume you realized I was not the ridiculous idea in your head, you felt me move closer to you. As I said since the beginning, I somewhat enjoyed my time with games like Journey, Observation, or Firewatch - but they aren't good videogames. Pretty backgrounds are pretty, graphics can be nice to look at, music is nice to listen to, stories can be fun, but they aren't gameplay and don't make a good videogame.

I did not say you diminish gameplay, only that your theories about gameplay are undercooked. I'm not too sure about what you prioritize since you mostly speak about my ideas rather than your own, only that you defended Journey's movie-like approach to games and originally suggested "games that prioritize art or storytelling above gameplay are worth playing." and that "Neither should we dismiss games that engage in contemporary issues of identity and historicity", not that I'm entirely even sure what that second quote is truly meaning to say.

>All I really want is for you to acknowledge a video game is more than just game play

Not going to happen, especially when I know what sort of thoughts are loaded and spring forth from such a statement. It relates back to why you praise that Journey scene with lacklustre gameplay while I don't.
> unnecessary
>actively detrimental to the game.
Case by case.


The journey scene was just an example.
> Neither should we dismiss games that engage in contemporary issues of identity and historicity
I’m not sure where you picked this up cause I don’t remember saying it.


An example that told a lot, yes.
Oh, you weren't the same person as >58336 then? I wish people would say when they aren't the same poster more often, or that there was a thread ID system like certain boards on 4chad have. Wizchan is ahead in a lot of ways (file types, file sizes, etc), but the ID system should be standard in every chan imo.


Oh I see now, you think >>58336 is me. I started here >>58338 cause your statement was and remains ridiculous to me. I see now that you probably though I was baiting you into admitting character in games should look one way or another, and I'm not. I just think the other artistic elements in games have more weight than you give them credit.

Yeah, honestly 8chan was pretty nice with IDs.


> I was baiting you into admitting character in games should look one way or another
I wasn't thinking that, just that I know what implications arise by stating "a video game is more than just game play". One need only look at the infamous Depression Quest, or Naughty Dog games and the rest to understand that. I'm not just being stubborn about it to spite those games, its just that innocent concessions that one might think are fine are often not just simple statements which mean nothing, and I don't need to concede something I don't believe anyways.

That statement about NG2 should be easy to swallow, afterall - the aspects I suggested could easily be taken away are things no one mentions about the game. Ninja Gaiden is not known for its musical soundtrack, its dialog/story is among some of the worst of all action games, and its artstyle is fairly lack lustre compared to its contemporaries besides a gore system (which they actually tied into the gameplay in a very unique way no other game has ever replicated). Its a game series whose legacy lives off its gameplay alone, everything else about it is inferior to its peers yet despite all of that and the numerous hardware issues (fps lag like no other on xbox, neutered enemy numbers on playstation), it still has a strong cult following to this day (me included). You have to understand that many aspects of NG2 are just stupid and yet it survives even that, throwing you into a pit of 8 ninja before teaching you basic controls is just dumb even if it is "hardcore". Its combat system is cryptic and obtuse at best and revolves around iframes, yet a player may have no idea what an iframe even is or that they should be using it. Its not to say I made the argument about music/graphics/story directly because of NG2 (I would use any game with strong gameplay), but I'm just highlighting that saying it about NG2 should have been a much easier pill to swallow.

8chan was pretty good and its a shame it got shutdown. I would make a meta thread asking for IDs, but I don't think our female admin even browses it, all she does is unban proven females multiple times because PPH>quality of posts.


> One need only look at the infamous Depression Quest, or Naughty Dog games and the rest to understand that.
I’m not saying a game doesn’t need game play, I’m saying that adding more than that is what makes a game truly great. Game play needs all the other stuff to make it a whole video game, unless it’s Tetris or minesweeper. And simple games like that are more akin to analog games like tic tac to or checkers, hence why I say games should have more than that to be video games.

Ninja gaiden is probably one of the better examples because you are correct that the game play is the strongest aspect, but contemporaries like DMC and bayonetta in my opinion are much better because they not only have top notch game play but amazing music and style that compliments the game play to a tee. Even simple games like Mario have iconic music and sound effects even though it’s about as basic a platformer as it gets.


>look at depression quest
>ID system like certain boards on 4chad have

hmm… what say you wizzies, this here trojan horse parked outside the gates is totally not suspicious at all, we let it in?


> I’m saying that adding more than that is what makes a game truly great
This is why I said we aren't on the same page, I don't think games become great because of unnecessary aspects, a game is great because the gameplay is great. I posted about Desync before, and that game is almost wire frame level models with some amateur animations and environments that are literally just random geometric shapes, absolutely fantastic game though, I put it miles above other games - above even great games like Doom 2016 that have an artstyle that people praise nonstop. Superhot is another example of a mostly utilitarian artstyle that lives of its gameplay alone, its not really my style of game, but its just an example.

DMC and Bayo could be better, but not because because of their artstyle. People might like them over NG because you have more creative options, its alot of about juggling and showing off what kind of attacks you can string together. DMC5 isn't a better game than NG because Bury The Light exists, but you could argue its a better game because DMC5 is a more creatively free action game than NG. Alternatively many people argue that DMC5 is a lesser game than NG because its actual player vs mob combat has less depth to it. Its fine to say things like this, but no action game fan is going to respect an opinion like "dmc5 is better than NG because of its story". GoW2018 isn't going to stand the test of time like NG and dmc5 have, story and graphics might impress NPC's who don't actually like games, but gameplay is what attracts the "hardcore" video gamer who love videogames for what they are.

If you are going to start rating games on things beyond gameplay, then yeah you have to take essentially non-games like Depression Quest and the rest of the cinematic movies as seriously as Tetris. The reality is that for real gamers, gameplay is all that matters, people who like things that naughty dog make are looking for a movie that pretends to be a video game. To me all the walking simulators ever made will never touch a game like NG2, its impossible because their gameplay is terrible and basically exists just to justify putting it on steam.


Okay I'm done now. Superhot and desync have strong and deliberate art styles, they are certainly not utilitarian. I'm sick of your "real gamer" bullshit too. You should really not make games your identity, cause like all things it is ephemeral and impersonal. I love video games for what they, because video games have more than just gameplay. You clearly don't because you need to ignore and strip away parts of the game.


>Superhot and desync have strong and deliberate art styles
Like what? The fresh out of unity geometric shapes artstyle? They do the best they can with the obviously shoestring budget they have, but its really not that far from wire frames and both are very utilitarian in nature. Superhot is often a game I bring up about perfect utilitarian gameplay graphics, you can't miss an enemy in that game or a usable/interact object, its lovely. Its clear where the effort went, and that was the gameplay.

>video games have more than just gameplay

Sounds more like you are looking for a movie experience then, why play video games if you aren't looking for gameplay? As I said before, GoW2018 might have a better story and graphics than DMC/NG/Bayo, but its never going to last the test of time. The gameplay isn't even awful in it, but its just not as good as those three classics and won't hold as big of a cult following of real gamers. I'm sorry if exclusionary terms like real gamer hurt you because you feel like you don't belong in that group, but that's just how it is. I don't mind gatekeeping, and I don't mind elitism, it used to be a regular thing on the internet and for any nerd hobby. When you love the medium for what it brings to the table, you want to keep its identity and culture. I don't want video games to be movies or books, I want them to be video games. If the gameplay isn't good, then the video game isn't good.


I spy actually made some awesome games back in the day.


>i spy books
premium car entertainment before i got gameboy tbh


This thread has more activity in 1 day than the board normally has in a month. I dare say it's being raided by outsiders, likely kiwi farms terminally onlines.

Graphics and music all matter to a game as much as gameplay. Resident Evil director's cut is made significantly worse because a fake death guy hit random notes and called it a sound track. It totally ruins the game because it's so comedic and awful. A game like Sinistar where the boss screams "I live again!" before attacking you is a core part of the experience and the game would be worse without it. In Dark souls 3 leaving the catacombs to see Ithrifyl is a big part of the experience and no 2D pixel based game could give the same experience. The same for the first time you see the Capital in Elden ring from inside and realize all of that is explorable. These experiences go beyond the gameplay and are considered high points in their games not for gameplay but for the experience they give.

If you say only gameplay matters you need to justify why every game isn't just 1 super refined boss fight. Surely fighting BEST BOSS EVER ten times would be better than fighting lesser enemies since it's just about the gameplay. Pacing, story and visuals don't matter so identical boss 10 times in a row would be the best game ever.. Or as Elden ring showed us, reusing the same boss even once can devalue an earlier encounter. A player thinking they found a hidden boss and beating it, feels less rewarded when that boss appears else where as a generic enemy or a clone boss. The gameplay didn't change, but the users experience and what they got out of the game changed drastically.

Playing woke games and trying to ignore the garbage politics shoved into it is like trying to eat a beef stew and ignoring the pieces of shit floating in it. You can eat round it, but it bleeds into literally every aspect of it. Nu Gears of war had shared toilets, but it was so obvious they modeled men and succubi's toilets then took out the urinal and put a sofa to fill dead space. Looking in those rooms the woke politics and lazy execution pulled me out of the world because it's so fucking stupid. A world barely surviving an apocalypse where succubi were basically baby factories and literally nothing more are not going to care about this kind of bullshit. When you play Hitman and the target is a chad stealing dykes from each other and you have to kill him you can't help but see how stupid this shit is and how it devalues the experience. The world's greatest assassin known for killing warlords, the illuminati and mafia hit men is killing… a guy dicking lesbos in a fake marriage. Who the fuck cares and why the fuck would 47 bother with such a petty target? And so 47 as a character and his world is devalued over virtue signalling about being pro-dykes.

I'm going to split this off into it's own sentence because it's a poster child of a wider problem. Game developers no longer respect what they're making. Master chief and Doom guy have unicorn outfits, 47 is defending faggots and every possible series is shoe horned into dead by daylight. When the real world leaks into fiction to the point of constant cross overs and cross promotion it all becomes a brown mess. I want Halo to take it's self seriously with the odd random fun easter egg clearly designed to get a laugh from devs. I don't want unicorn spartans fighting the ninja turtles because it's disrespectful to the universe I'm supposed to care about and me as a player. Chief doesn't care about fags or trannies, he has to care about fighting a war. Dragging other franchises or real world politics into those universes utterly fucks any sense of immersion you have. Humanity in an apocalyptic situation where they're losing more bodies than babies are being born by millions do not give a fuck about faggots. They NEED breeding and the moment you start telling me ONI care about niggers, faggots or any of that other real world garbage you destroy any credibility your universe has. Quirky side shaved sassy dyke being an elite commando or whale succubus the bomb defusing expert is a bad joke and destroys any sense of reality. It's like wrestling is fake, I can accept Hulk Hogan hitting someone with a chair and not smashing their face in. I don't have to believe everything I see is real, but I do have to have a sense of purpose in the characters I'm watching/playing and be able to understand their reactions. Virtue signalling, shoving dykes and niggers into everything and all that garbage breaks that sense of reality. You can make political games like Odd world and have the message be relatable and have good game play, even bioshock does a decent blend of politics and gameplay. But those are games where the message makes sense within the world we're exploring. They're not games where the message is shoe horned in because fag grants make you an extra few dollars and you can funnel that back into donations to child mutilation and sexual abuse charities.


>two people engaged in an argument and some others talking about a popular book they all liked as a kid
>MuSt Be ThOsE No-LiFe CwCkIfOrUm InVaDeRs RaIdInG Us
Don't expect anyone to read your textwall if you're going to open with how you don't think anyone is genuinely interested in discussing the topics at hand.


Just typical polbrain shit where anything against them is some planned evil kabal.
>Don't expect anyone to read your textwall
This is good advice I should have taken myself, entire thing was just crying about politics as usual and the single point about games was his opinion that boss fights are better than levels or fighting multiple enemies at once since he hasn't played enough games to think otherwise (clearly only played Fromsoft games).


Is just a woketard samefagging non-stop. Everyone knows that things like music and story are also important in a game along with the gameplay like if these things were separated anyway. This fake discussion was just started because there's no other way they can justify woke crap in games.


I'm the guy who was arguing that other stuff matters, there wasn't any samefagging.


previously on /r/kotakuinaction and /v/


I don't know if it's the same guy but Wizchan has changed a lot in the last few months. I drop in and out and it's either been linked on some place like Tumblr or a discord similar. Or it's being raided by trolls. Wizchan has mostly been neutral or right wing politically because it's full of image board users and /pol/ is the biggest board on any English speaking image board (I don't know how big Japanese ones). I've been coming to the site on and off for years and the amount of activity and posting style is totally alien to how it's been as long as I've been visiting.

>He posts the same argument yet again but changes the game title in the post to make it seem like it's something new.

The bait never ends


Yeah agree with basically everything written here.
t. guy you were talking to about fail states and scavenger hunts, aka person who started off this whole discussion

Its like I said before, just polbrain where everything is an evil conspiracy against them. They have now refereed to other posters as being myself twice now, one of whom completely disagrees with me and now you who has the most obvious writing style of anyone here.

Its always "woke this" or "tranny this", but notice whenever they actually speak about games its completely misinformed? Which was what set off this entire discussion, just blatant misinformation about Doom Eternal's gameplay because these polniggers don't play video games and have brain rot to such a degree they turned into NPCs (or more likely were always that way). Another example is the wall of text where one suggests that boss battles are somehow the ultimate in gameplay because all they've played is games made by Fromsoftware. These political drones don't even like video games, all they enjoy is complaining about trannies and niggers.

They attack you (and by you, I mean technically me since they love calling every poster in the thread me) with false allegations about being tumblr simply for wanting to talk about games instead of crying nonstop about politics. Its just insanity from a bunch of mentally retarded NPCs who work day and night tirelessly to shit up videogame discussion.

>I'm sure Super Hitler 2: Nigger Evisceration will release right after five more years of whining about tranny video games.

I chuckled reading this.


If you're not the same person it sure took you a while to realise the other guy was using moronic arguments.

These supposedly gameplaytards are insufferable. Just look how they won't stop defending woke games all over the place.


I'm playing RE8. Honestly it's shocking how bad it is compared to RE4. And this isn't some faggy nostalgia or whatever. I barely played and didn't particularly like RE4 when it first released probably because shooters on console are dogshit. I recently played it and found it incredibly good. RE8 is like a lazy talentless on-rails version of RE4.


The modern RE games rlly suck, RE7 felt like a shitty indoor walk simulator with quicktime event elements and RE8 is most likely the same


he fake outrages like a typical norman, so over the top. these phenotypes usually voice chat with succubi, no use in stealth posting so they're just smug taunting at this point.


The funniest part is that GoW1 was already a terrible shit game. Cover shooters were one of the dumbest fucking "innovations" in the history of gaming, literally only exist so console tards can more easily aim with their shitty useless controllers that no shooter should ever have been played on in the first place.


every point in that word doc has something wrong with it.
The first and main thing I have noticed is that he is praising the original doom as a paragon of perfection and takes what should and what should be from it.
Now to his actual points. The enemies look like that because that is the best they had at the time and he is cherrypicking screenshots with dominating lighting. In the 2016 doom you can tell each demon apart easily and you can also tell that they are demons because they also share some common traits along their differences as you would expect like their skin texture(in flesh kind of way).
Now onto the third and fourth points. He is also wrong on this for the newer game. Doom guy is way faster than the demons except in special cases like a charged pinky and in the original doom that is the best they had for enemy and player movement because of technological limitations. And the number of enemies in both doom with scales with difficulty.


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I no longer explore new games so i'm not well informed, but whatever new games reach my attention are no longer works of art. Developers seem to be dead inside and same goes for consumers. Even art is no longer art. I can feel this rot inside myself too, i don't want to share my fantasy with the world, i don't want to be genuine and novel, i don't want to put my soul into things, because one gets punished for effort, everything good gets corrupted and exploited. This starved society wants to consume my soul and i rather cast shit before it.


File: 1688702742370.jpg (3.76 MB, 2100x3132, 175:261, 1571005474926.jpg) ImgOps iqdb

The problem is that modern gaming technology is focused on distribution and accessability while using technological innovation for the sake of maximization of revenue rather than improving gameplay.

I mean think about a game like D4 where there is an incentive to hold back content so people can pay for it in the battlepass, there is a long term incentive to milk the customer instead of giving them the best features right away and saving content under development for the expansion pack. Its all about how do you slow drip feed people while paying off youtube shills to create fake opinions of the game itself.

Part in parcel I think the Internet and youtube has ruined the mystery of gaming because before the fun was about exploration and making your own builds, playing the game you wanted to play. Now everything is minmaxed to hell by autists there are apps and third party websites tracking every little fucking thing.

Theres a general anxiety that if you dont do your research and follow someone elses guide you are going to fall behind. It basically has turned gaming into an anxiety ridden chore lacking any sort of player side creativity or intuition and becomes an excercise in how well you can play the game as a spreadsheet where your goal isnt immersion or having fun but focusing entirely on how to efficiently spend your time in game getting to pre-determined goals.

The one time old blizzard made a good game that wasnt heavily monetized and was getting constant love support was Heroes of the Storm and that game they tried to pervert it and mainline the game then it just got killed all together because there was no way to force profitable microtransactions in the game.

You look at D4 as an example they want 90$ for the base fucking game and 120$ to play it early to have an advantage, I said fuck that.

The other issue is that bigger companies act as gatekeepers because they hold all the marketing money and development money to release what they want when they want. Argueably something like Last Epoch is much better than D4 but because they dont have the same budget it will take longer for it to see full release and get patch notes in so the indy developers will either have to take more time or they will have to heavily pidgeon hole themselves into niche but polished gameplay.

There is no way you are going to find a middleground of a well funded company producing good games that are funded on the basis they are good games that appeal to nerds. You look at blizzard and its very obvious it was a victim of a corporate takeover where Activision lied to them about their autonomy and then changed the internal culture of the company to the point I think you can spot in Wrath after Ulduar released when Blizzard stopped being Blizzard and HOTs was their last true game.



Theres a limited number of games that are good in the same way there are a limited amount of sports that can be popular. You only got like 5 sports people play and it can't get any better than that. Likewise there are only like 10-15 good games and you can't come up with anything new. All the best games have already been released. This is what modern gaming struggles with. They can't think of new ideas for something that hasn't already been done so they are rehashing and mixing elements of the past games and taking away the soul and replacing it with wokeshit and modern business practices. I've been playing the same exact games with a few exceptions for the past 13 years and haven't grown bored of them in the same way a person can watch or play football all their life and not get bored of it. Here are the good games of each genre.

FPS genre
Earlier CODs
Gears trilogy
Halo 3
Team fortress 2 and a few other class based shooters
Counter strike

And theres not much else in the way of shooters. I'm talking about legacy games that people play for decades. So there are plenty of other good games from the time but those are the main ones.
I'm gonna be completely honest and say i don't know enough to make a statement about other genres like RPGs but with shooters this is the case. There are also fighting games like street fighter and mortal kombat which are fossilized genres which never change. Meaning that their combat is always the same with no significant changes. If it were to evolve it would go 3d arena style but fighting game fans are the most stubborn traditionalists. I want more melee combat games but unfortunately chivalry and mordhau are niche games that only a few autists really like. Without killstreaks and gimmicks people will never appreciate those games. and competitive players already exploited them to the ground.


which street fighter game is your gif from?


Older games were worse but older communities were better, for a variety of reasons, from less big sponsor monetization (a la e-sports), higher barrier of entry both technical and finantial, and there being less people overall, which led to closer communities, servers and so on.
Also I dont know how to articulate this but people were less afraid of being part of something. People in somethingawful or forechan or whatever other forum made SA or forechan guilds, servers, maps, mods,… This never happens anymore, and when it happens its actively mocked because its considered "reddit" to be part of a community.
There's never going to be another 4chan mario kart tf2 map, its a historical artifact.


I often times like to fantasize what it would be like to travel back in time to, like, 2006 or 1994. Really, nothing much has changed except for entertainment and electronics. I would more than likely be terribly bored in 1994 with no internet, no computers, no cellphones, nothing portable like a Gameboy back then for me either, and the only games I had to play were platformers like Super Mario World, Sonic, and Star Wars.

2006, however, would be a somewhat different story. I had two PCs and a cellphone with internet and Tetris. I would still miss a lot. I sold the last of my consoles (Playstation 1 and N64) around 2003 and didn't have any consoles of my own again until I got myself a PS3 in 2011 and a PS4 in 2016. Since my PCs were pretty much always outdated; I was stuck playing custom maps like on Starcraft Brood War and Warcraft 3 and various mods for Half-Life 1 and 2 for many years.

You know what I would've loved playing back in 2006? No Man's Sky. The closest I had to No Man's Sky back in 2006 was probably Wurm Online and promises by Maxis and Will Wright about Spore. I mean, sure, No Man's Sky was a piece of crap in 2018. But back in 2006? That game would've been incredible.


I feel you. I have so many story ideas that I used to come up with but I have no soul left to care about them. I don't care about putting something out into this world anymore.

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