No.305809
>>305804>How has God helped you in your life?Uhh… it sorta' guided me through my ancient history research but not much further back than, like, maybe 1274 BCE or so.
No.305816
>>305809im not very good at numbers, and have a hard time keeping track of BC dates counting backwards. but tis weird to think of major historic events happening as far before Jesus as we are after Jesus
No.305818
unironically have helped and still helps me to overcome various mental issues. i appeal to god as to external power to keep me afloat and it just works. it's usually images on christian icons because i've been raised in christian environment, but it doesn't really matter which god you worship. it may be even something/someone you deviced on your own. just the presence of imaginary external power helps when you feel helpless because heck it's external power after all it's supposed to be more functional that i am.
No.305819
>>305818>imaginary external power Except God is very real, not imaginary. There's a big difference between appealing to something because you like the idea and appealing to someone because you think they exist.
No.305821
>>305819i can't say i think, i rather strongly want to believe they exist because otherwise my life would be a complete dark misery. my "imaginary" god is the only spark of light still left basically even though i do not think about it often i always know it. but do you think they are real just because i want them to be real so bad?
No.305822
PS by saying "they", "them" etc i mean whatever i consider to be my god to whom i want to appeal.
No.305837
>>305821I think there's two big problems you can run into with this kind of reasoning.
The first is just called "Wishful thinking". Like a man who is able to convince himself his wife is faithful when she's really not. It's a kind of delusion which will not hold forever.
The second is less bad. It's a kind of using God to your own ends. Like God is something you cling to when times are tough but when things look up again you discard God as not being useful to you anymore. God in this case is just something which serves you and nothing more.
No.305838
"If two men, a man and his countryman, are struggling together, and the wife of one comes near to deliver her husband from the hand of the one who is striking him, and puts out her hand and seizes his genitals, then you shall cut off her hand; you shall not show pity."
from Deuteronomy 25
Seems reasonable, no?
No.305855
>>305804I was born in a christian household, but later in life I changed my views to bnei noach. Believing in God really helps, but i'm undisciplined and can't get myself to pray every day.
No.305857
>>305855It's weird. randomly I get a kind of "mental reminder" that I should pray. I can choose to ignore it if I want but I secretly wonder if God is speaking to me directly.
No.305859
>>305816Yeah Jesus was born sometime like in between the years 7 and 4 BCE so it can probably be said that we're living in the year 2029 since his birth.
No.305901
>>305838What this line made me thought of were those NTR doujinshi where the female relative tries to stop bullying of the main character by having sex with the bully. That's really the kind of scenario I think this passage is referencing.
No.305958
>>305902wiz just listen to my fascinating theory. i don't know which by count i am in inventing this one (likely 9999+), but still.
this world is the afterlife. almost afterlife, because there's no evidence there's only void after death here. we were once free spirits doing whatever elsewhere. but, as any living being, we had desires, goals, worldview (very different from here). and so, in our attempt to reach the desired we committed irreversible. the god, it his attempt to teach us a lesson, hurled us here.
but it was not the case with everyspirit. this world cannot be avoided, it is a must. everyspirit at some point has to go through it for one reason or another.
the point is that we, who misbehaved, were an inconvenience for the god. he wants us to suffer. he wants us to acknowledge his superiority. or we were bastards back then, who fucked up things, or were malicious or whatever. but he could NOT do anything to us in our spirit form. every spirit is free to act on its own will. but the god is cunning. he knows the flaw. here, we are vulnerable. he makes our lives here as miserable as possible, tortures us. likely it helps to get rid of us. maybe we leave this world broken and exhausted and he kills us while we are still weak.
for those, who are in god's favor, this world is a pleasure dome. for those, whom his wants to brainwash, this world is a trial. for those, who are his enemies, this is a prison. a cruel prison, where you're on your own.
don't give up wiz! you mustn't leave this world crushed, for this will mean he's won. stand for yourself! fuck this world! we won't allow him to beat us while we're inside these weak shells. no matter how miserable it gets, do not die crushed. die with the anticipation of a furious resistance, of a rightful victory over him!
No.305959
>>305958What you are describing is just Gnosticism.
No.305960
>>305959Gnosticism really make lots of sense based on intuition alone. You really have to deep dive some Origenism and Neo-Platonism to dispel it, and it never entirely goes away.
No.305961
>>305960>Gnosticism really make lots of sense based on intuition aloneThat might as well be a point against it.
No.305963
where do you learn theological theories? unironically read manuscripts? because honestly this all sound a bit overcomplicated. this world is just rng and you are the unlucky one. that's a very simple explanation, has no flattery in it and is very plausible based on evidence.
No.305965
>>305963What do you want me to say wizzie? Reality is a complex place so why expect spirituality to be simple?
No.305967
What are some good Christian books you can recommend?
I'm currently reading 'On Resistance to Evil by Force' by Ivan Ilyin which is a very interesting take on Christian ethics during times of oppression and systematic evil and its most likely one of the most controversial books in Christian literature.
I also read 'Pride: Identity and the Worship of Self' by Matthew Roberts recently which is a book that has been released this year and its a nice take on the narcissistic self-worship and identity in modern times and it also shows some light for people who think they are too deep in sexual sin.
No.305969
>>305967Christianity for modern pagans by Peter Kreeft
No.305988
How to conquer lust? Christians tend to downplay it and say it's not a problem but it's a huge problem in my life and nothing helps
No.305991
>>305988As I have struggled with this issue all my life as well I can provide you with some videos that helped me a lot.
Fr Seraphim Aldea on how to fight against lust (video embedded):
https://youtu.be/rj4Tw9UJQ8wFr. Spyridon Bailey on battling lust (2 videos):
https://youtu.be/daxywGGJPMwhttps://youtu.be/43tv5fAMVCUThe story of Evergrtinos who struggled with lust and self-abuse as related by church father St. Amphilochios (this helped me a whole lot during times when I fell into deep depression because of my struggles with lust):
https://youtu.be/OOQxdpPd_PI No.305992
>>305988The first thing to do, always, is to give your struggle to God and admit weakness in the face of overwhelming struggle.
The second thing is to understand the two sided nature of any temptation. There is the temptation itself which exists in the present (The desire). The second facet is the dread or anxiety at having to endure the temptation. It's usually the second thing that causes us to fail. We think "No possible way I can endure this forever" and we give in. In my experience, temptations never go on to the lengths I *think* they will persist. And I find if I give up and rely only on God's strength and not my own, miracles occur and I make it to the other side. It's usually at the point of exhaustion that God comes in at the last moment to relieve you of duty
We are fallen beings and so it is inevitable that we will fail in our efforts to be perfect. However, any temptation fairly resisted and dutiful repented is a brick laid in our road to God. God will help you. But his help will not always appear as a sudden invigoration but sometimes, slow and gradual progress. Don't give up wizzie! It's the only fatal sin
No.305995
>>305804I'm still alive. That says a lot considering all the bullshit I've been through.
No.305996
>>305991>>305992thank you for your response I will watch the videos and keep trying to work at it.
>Its the only fatal sinIt is? I never knew it was that serious. People really make excuses and say its no big deal and its harmful
No.306001
>>305996Well, if you give up you are admitting one of of two things. Either you can never hope to be good, which makes goodness impossible, or you're doubting the power of God's infinite grace to fix one's sins.
No.306007
>>305992>God will help you. Can he help me attain nonexistence?
Ive never asked for this meaningless, nightmarish existence.
No.306009
>>306007Have you tried giving your cross to God?
No.306022
>>306021Why can't we have both Islam and Christianity? The two religions are perfectly capable of co-existing. What is the purpose of having these debates?
No.306023
>>306022Islam and Christianity both have theological points that clearly oppose each other which is also shown in this debate.
As of the purpose of debates, I personally watch debates to learn more about theology through entertainment but I also see that there is often no deeper purpose to it than that because usually people won't get convinced in one way or the other and just stay with what they already believe, it's the same with political debates.
No.306024
>>306023I see, personally I think the gift of Christianity is in it's vast library of authors, mystics, poets, scientists and societies it has produced. Personally I would be more at home spending my time reading through what the early Church fathers had to say than watching popular figures like Dyer because there is absolutely no need of any kind for hostile theological debates in the year 2023. In fact that is precisely the kind of thing I'd like to escape from entirely.
No.306025
>>306024I agree with you and I try to read more in general because that has actual value. This year I started getting books as well as a study bible because I want to get deeper into actually studying things instead of consuming.
I look at debates as entertainment but I also understand that it's probably counterproductive in a lot of ways because entertainment and faith shouldn't be mixed too much just like politics. Also one can never be sure how faithful these figures actually are and how much is just sole niche entertainment for monetary gains. Also all this internet stuff is always awfully close to pride which I'm also not a fan of and some of the followers of these people are quite mislead characters who resort to arguing online over practicing faith.
No.306030
I want to pray to God for death, but I feel like it's a sin. It's like I'm throwing life back in God's face. Something he gave to me for a purpose.
Do you think it a sin to pray for death?
No.306036
>>306001You have opened my eyes to the problem. Its that I am
>doubting the power of God's infinite grace to fix one's sinsby believing things like "a leopard can't change his spots"/people don't change etc. and being too pessimistic and cynical
No.306137
>>305804My faith has helped me immensely. I don't know how I lived beforehand, or what would've become of me without it.
Before it was all about keeping up with the normies, but I am more content now and given me a sense of proportion. My normie family doesn't understand how I can be asocial but 'real life' is vanity and ephemeral. Not that I'm against friends I just take relationships as they come I don't actively seek them out and I am quite sceptical that a relationship can be 'true' and anything more than mutual utility and pleasure unless they share a similar worldview which is why I kind of drifted from my old friendship group but I think I am happier for it.
I've pretty much resigned myself to wizardry for life since I'm not interested in procreating because I know how terrible life can be and I'm not sure if my children would have the same mentality when confronting life as me or if I could even instil it in them effectively, but I'm ok with that since marriage can either make or break you and it's one of those things to paraphrase Kierkegaard that you 'regret it if you do and regret it if you don't', also children I imagine is a massive challenge and responsibility with questionable trade off especially just for a moment of passion.
No.306147
>>306036It's very hard to accept that under our own power we are not capable of conquering sin. To be honest I hate asking God for help. It injures my pride. I want to do things "on my own", but it's not enough some of the time.
I don't think God wants us to be helpless, asking him for every little thing, but admitting we are too weak is necessary to attaining perfection.
No.306215
>>306147The Christian god can read your mind; he created every fiber of your body and the the world around you. He knows past, present and future in all its possible iterations.
You don't need to ask for anything; if he exists, he knows your state of being at any time.
No.306217
>>306215The function of prayer is not to influence God, but rather to change the nature of the one who prays.
-Soren Kierkegaard
No.306229
>>306217'Lord, even though your book says 'Faith moves mountains' and I guess that must've been a metaphor, I only ask of one thing: Make it so that my own and everyone else's happiness level rises a little bit. Uhm, amen!'
God is the ultimate king of reality and hyper-reality (where he comes from); if a heartfelt prayer doesn't work it means he does NOT want it for you.
No.306231
>>306229I never said prayer always works. You should prayer though
No.306234
>>306231I 'prayered' (not an actual verb) many times in my life. It never helped. I suppose God just doesn't like me or whatever, ha ha.
No.307568
>>307558The demiurge seems pretty wizardly
No.307571
>>307558Honestly gnostism really makes me think there is no free will.
Sophia made a mistake and created the demiurge, but you can't blame her she was only following her nature. It was inevitable, even.
Demiurge does what it does because it was born "corrupted", you can hardly blame it.
Even though we are being farmed for loosh and it is painful and sucks, ultimately it is still because loosh has a utility value to the demiurge and archons which isn't something they decided, it was forced upon them.
The fact that all of this happened at all proves the highest creator isn't perfect ( or at least, perfection requires suffering ).
Even beyond the prison dimension the demiurge create, the fact a suffering happened to begin with means it can and probably will happen again. Whose to say outside of the demiurges creation there's still suffering, just a different non-material form of it. Easy example is Sophia, it's probably a source of suffering that there is a blind spot in her knowledge. Something similar probably applies to the Aeons. Is it just a limitation of human thinking? Probably not, or Sophia wouldn't have done what she had done to begin with.
Buddhists are right, oblivion is the only salvation.
No.307572
>>307558Did you make this? It's p cool.
No.307575
>>307572No I first saw it over on 4chan's /his/ back in 2019 or so.
No.307636
>>307579>>307633I was scrolling through /all/ and thought it was "Hitler" when it passed by.
No.309073
God is all you need.
No.309076
>>309075>I feel like I'm missing something to connect with the preaching. A connection with God? Probably should pray more.Religion is a normalfag thing for they don't kill themselves. Obviously, a wizard won't get along. The church is a basically a club for families to socialize and even if you're a christian, you'll be unable to connect because you're alone and trying to fit in, besides the religious goal.
>I am aware that Christians have more happy and stable lives.That's not true, but having something/someone for you is quite motivating.
No.309096
>>309075As a single adult male it's hard to fit in at a church. Everyone your age will have already married and stared families and all the activities will be geared towards them. You might get lucky and there will be another single weirdo there that you can be friends with.
No.309097
>>309096>You might get lucky and there will be another single weirdo there that you can be friends with.what is this normalfag shit
No.309098
>>309097I'm just saying. I have not experienced it.
No.309318
>>309075I often think that church is where faith goes to die, I never enjoyed going to the Sunday service, more often than not it just irritates me how it is a gathering point for gossip, networking and showing off. Instead, I just focus on my own study and thoughts, and occasionally go to a large church when there is no service going just for some quiet time and reflection.
I think that makes me a deist, someone who strongly believes there is a higher power and afterlife, but is not connected to any particular denomination.
No.309325
>>309075try a catholic church. more solemn. more structured. in many ways its anonymous, as long as you are baptised and know the rhythm. first part is just readings (old testament, new testament, gospels) and then the eucharist. 1 hour. no bs. there's night masses too since im an insomniac. it's given me peace in my life, you might like it
No.309445
>>309444keep movies made by idiots about any subject contained to the movies thread and away from the threads about that subject thx
No.310045
Being that I was raised Catholic; I can't help but to frequently speculate on what I was taught as I was growing up. Even now–as an atheist; I often wonder about how literally I should take everything I was told about Catholicism and Christianity; in particular, the part about the Holy Trinity. Much of it is still lingering somewhere in the back of my mind and I don't think that any amount of skepticism will make it go away; on the contrary, I can feel the beliefs of other religions that I was raised on (such as Santeria and some New Age shit) intermingling with what I was taught about Christ at my local church in various unpleasant ways. Would I have been any spiritually healthier had I been raised purely Catholic? Would I have been mentally healthier had I been raised as an atheist from birth? Would I have developed psychosis regardless? I suppose only time will tell.
No.310054
Anon struggling with lust here, I really appreciate the advice on battling lust upthread thanks guys. I have had a rough go of it since that post but am going to try and get back into the habit of daily Bible reading and work on myself more
No.310055
>>310054I ain't even a Christian, but I am a sucker for self cultivation.
I wish you luck in your endeavor and hope your readings bring you the strength needed to stay on course.
No.310056
>>310055>>310054>work on myself more>self cultivationTo what end?
300 hundred hours of meditation and a thousand cold showers later nothing will change internally or externally.
The mind is controlled by the material not the other way around.
No.310058
>>310057You in the bucket.
You wallow in your piss and superstitious self-improover delusions instead of actually doing something.
>If I wake up with my feet facing east and cold shower at the exact hour of the full moon my bank account will magically fill up with money>Actually doing something? No, that's crab-shit bro. If I believe it hard enough it will just happen by itself. No.310059
>>310055Thank you for the kind words and I wish you well all the same. Merry Christmas!
>>310056Body, Mind, and Spirit are interconnected. A weak body leads to a diseased mind leads to a wounded soul. I'm much better when I'm self-improving. These things go in cycles, you just gotta stick at it and try not to completely give up/lose all your built-up progress when the crash comes.
>>310058posts like this make me think you've already given up. Or are just some bored kiwifarmer/crystalcafe troll
No.310060
>>310059>posts like this make me think you've already given up.It's simply that you are too stupid/ young to comprehend reality and are still stuck buying and reading Napoleon Hill/ Dale Carnegie/ Peterson grifter books, thinking that "changing your mindset" is all you need to be "happy" instead of actually putting in the effort to getting what you want by force.
It only feels good to "do self-improvementTM, wash your penis.Copyright", because it's quite literally, another form of jacking off. You're not going anywhere, you're not doing anything, you're only pretending to.
>Learn a language>Cold shower>Meditate>Clean your room>Read>Positive thoughtsNone of that tills the fields and puts food on the table, no matter how hard you delude yourself.
No.310061
>>310060You've been using meme words a lot and now you give the impression that your own desires are entirely of material gratification. You can't comprehend the value in "felling good for the sake of feeling good, feels good" and have circled to insisting that this type of "feeling good" isn't valuable because it doesn't directly feed and pay.
There are men here who can't even put socks on their feet against the tearing pull of their own depressive spiral. Any small steps towards a positive outlook, even if it's one of these "delusions", is going to do much better for the man than wallowing in filth and thinking destructive thoughts. It's as if you're angry that guys who have forgotten how to walk are being encouraged to take one single step, when you personally think they should just go straight to the employment agency and ask for a job that requires walking.
Next time you want to textually soyjakpost with your "ImPROOOOVER" meme, turn your Macbook off instead.
No.310072
>>310060Neither young nor stupid. LOL at the rest of your post. Go drag someone else down into your crab bucket retard
No.310075
>>310060>Any small steps towards a positive outlookExcept that it isn't.
No matter how many walks one takes or how many positive thoughts one thinks, absolutely nothing of actual substance will change. It's like going ham an exercise bike and expecting to make a trip across your state.
Suicidal ideation is causes by lack of material success.
>when you personally think they should just go straight to the employment agency and ask for a job"Material" does not mean "money". Retard.
A Wizzie can gain The Material by being a pure NEET.
No.310076
>>310075well you just proved that yes indeed your definition of depression is something like 'depression is when no money, no nice clothes, no tendies".
a rotten mind will always have rotten thoughts. the first step to healing the mind is by healing the body, which is done through exercise and sunchine
No.310078
>>310076>depression is when no money, no nice clothes, no tendiesYes. It is as simple as that.
Keep doing your self-improover superstitious magic rituals, one day you will hit 25 and realize that you have wasted your life for a "mindset" that isn't even there. Material is permanent, the mind is fickle.
t. casualty of improoving towards no end for a decade
No.310263
>>310075>Suicidal ideation is causes by lack of material success.WTF? lol
No.310748
I always thought that the image of God as an old man with a beard was very primitive, and preferred to think of God as a bright light. Like OP's image for example.
But isn't that just Sun worship? And is it really more higher and philosophic than the Old Man? The Sun is just another natural phenomena like Man is. But at a lower level. The Sun creates light and heat from which plants and animals emerge and at its highest is the Human Mind. So to worship an Old Man with a Beard, is to worship the highest level of matter in motion. While a Sun is just raw material for plants to grow on. Worshipping a blade of grass is a higher being than the Sun.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_the_Father_in_Western_art No.310749
>>310748you are saying god as an old man with a beard is very primitive
you are also saying god as the sun is primitive and literally a blade of grass is greater
No.310750
>>310749i'm critically reconsidering my assumptions. maybe i was wrong
No.310751
Why does the catholic church need food donations when they are so well off? I always noticed monks have to grow their foood but nuns dont?
No.310752
>>310751Do the Priests eat the food?
No.311539
From The Genius of Christianity, or Beauties of the Christian Religion (French: Le Génie du christianisme, ou Beautés de la religion chrétienne) a work by the French author François-René de Chateaubriand, written during his exile in England in the 1790s as a defense of the Catholic faith, then under attack during the French Revolution.-
—-
In man, virginity assumes the character of sublimity. When, in the fierce rebellion of the passions, it resists the invitation to evil, it becomes a celestial virtue. "A chaste heart," says St. Bernard, "is by virtue what an angel is by nature. There is more felicity in the purity of the angel, but there is more courage in that of the man."
Plato, without wife and children, seated on the steps of a temple at the extremity of a cape lashed by the waves, and there lecturing to his disciples on the existence of God, exhibits a far more elevated character. He belongs not to the earth; he seems to be one of those spirits or higher intelligences of whom he speaks in his writings.
Thus, virginity, ascending from the last link in the chain of beings up to man, soon passes from man to the angels, and from the angels to God, in whom it is absorbed. God reigns in a glory unique, inimitable in the eternal firmament, as the sun, his image, shines with unequalled splendor in the visible heavens.
We may conclude that poets and men even of the most refined taste can make no reasonable objection to the celibacy of the priesthood, since virginity is among the cherished recollections of the past, is one of the charms of friendship, is associated with the solemn thought of the tomb, with the innocence of childhood, with the enchantment of youth, with the charity of the religious, with the sanctity of the priest and of old age, and with the divinity in the angels and in God himself.
No.311542
>>305988When questioning my former childhood mummy gut ma, Ahmed about it i was packaged Saint Bernadette: The Song of Bernadette Movie
No.311543
>How has God helped you in your life?
Helped? I don't know… I'm in a botomless pit of suffering where I'm constantly humilliated and treated like shit everywhere I go. I can't even get a job because of my looks and my mental issues and there are no neetbux where I live, so poverty and the threat of starvation are always present. I'm still alive and I'm eating well at the moment, so I guess He's """helping""" me. Yay, thanks God. Please keep throwing crumbs at me. I hope I can continue to amuse you with my suffering.
No.311564
I've never really been able to believe in God. I can understand the rational arguments for a God, but I don't really agree with them, and on a spiritual level, there's nothing. I wouldn't call myself an atheist, because I'm still open to the idea of there being a God, but I'm 90% sure God doesn't exist.
No.311665
>>311564>I can understand the rational arguments for a Godlol, none
No.311666
>>311665>Sage>Lol.>AthiestHahahah
No.311685
this site already is a shanty town for seamen strolling around with sörvyer
No.311940
>Men were not ushered into being for the purpose of being saved or lost! God-manifestation, not human salvation, was the grand purpose of the Eternal Spirit. The salvation of a multitude is incidental to the manifestation, but it was not the end purpose. The Eternal Spirit intended to enthrone Himself on the earth and, in so doing, to develop a divine family from among men, every one of whom shall be spirit because born of the Spirit; and that this family shall be large enough to fill the earth, when perfected, to the entire exclusion of flesh and blood.
Recently I came across this interesting viewpoint. In a way, this perspective solves the "Problem of Evil", doesn't it? Because, from this standpoint, humans exist for the purpose of making the world into what the Deity wants. Humans are essentially Spirit-machines, or a highly-advanced tool. Much as a human makes a specific tool for a specific purpose: he designs the tool of a hammer for the task of smacking a nail; the tool of a pogo stick for hopping into the heavens. So too did God design the tool of a human for the purpose of shaping the world to His liking.
God did not create the world for humans to have happy-go-lucky lives free of suffering and pain, so the fact that suffering and pain happens to exist in our world isn't necessarily His fault or even His concern (as much as accepting such a truth may hurt). Ultimately, the "Problem of Evil" ends with the final question of "Why call him God?" The answer is a simple, not-so-comfortable truth: YOU DON'T HAVE TO.
No.311943
>>311940Yes tis Q1 in the westminster catechism
Question 1: What is the chief and highest end of man?
Answer 1: Man’s chief and highest end is to glorify God,[1] and fully to enjoy him forever.[2]
No.314095
>>305804Long read.
I was a devout christian most of my life, about roughly two decades. To give you an idea I prayed every single time I went to eat just about anything, including drinking water, every single time. Avoided temptations, etc, etc.
Then I became a gnostic for what lasted unironically one week, before i reverted to some weird mix between protestantism and catholicism as it always was (minus clergy and pope bullshit, then, which in themselves are aberrations according to the bible, none should represent God, even less promote degeneracy if you catch my drift, as well as pedo stuff etc).
Then, I realized not too long ago that, being someone who value objectivity, rationality, and critical-thinking and seek truth no matter the cost, maybe i'd need to actually reflect on my 'beliefs'.
So I thought, what's the origin of christianity. The Bible, so let's study it, let's find if there are any pitfalls, inconsistencies. Turns out there's only that, after all it was written by men. There's a PDF online which lists a lot of them, but i'll refrain from posting it since you can find it yourself if that's something you're willing to study.
Although the PDF is indeed in a sardonic/slightly condescendant tone, a lot of the counter-arguments from it are actually very right.
>fug.jpgSo, here I am, thinking 'Well bible is useless then. What about god?'. So I thought, let's review why do we believe christianity. Because of generational faith transmission, because of natural selection (faith provided a survival advantage because it improved group cohesion, moreso because heretics and non-believers were killed, meaning genes that would diverge from religious beliefs would be far less spread and less common than the ones who cause people to be more religious, inherently).
Okay, so it means that people believe faith mainly because their parents teached them to (excluding NDEs, drug trips because while important they're way less common, debatable, and because i need something widespread for my example). They didn't really 'see' anything, they just believe what they grew in.
Alright, then it means we must go to the origin of that generational faith. Hell, let's not limit it to christianity, but to all religions.
So, the first person who likely sparked religions must have 'seen', things, right? Otherwise how would he make something so elaborate, and so boastful as to say that such a grand thing has been revealed to him and that he 'knows'?
Well, philosophically, very improbable. If he did 'see' it, other than cognitive biases, a need to alleviate the fear of death, of observing simple pareidolia (i.e seeing faces in clouds, objectively there's nothing it's just the way our brain perceives things), then, surely, all religions would agree on the same thing, right? Everyone's god would be completely the same, same for the laws, and if that first man saw what he saw, why aren't we able to replicate that despite light-years technology of improvement compared to that guy? If he saw something that was real, we'd be able to see it, right. No? Then it means it's purely imaginative, and speculative.
And if it's speculative/imaginative, is it real? No, not quite. Even if you're persuaded that the color you see in front of you is green, if you're daltonian (having a perception different than others) and everyone else isn't and sees blue instead, then your perception is wrong because the consensus on what they see brings us closer to a more objective way of perceiving that same color. And that applies for anything. A single perception is always subjective.
And the problem is that this original faith person was alone, and that includes prophets, so it's subjective, what they saw, we cannot see it with science, hell, even religions all disagree on what would actually be god, or the after-life, if it had any reality to it, there wouldn't be a difference of interpretation, because we'd see the same thing. And then if we add the 'need' for religion, to alleviate the fear of death, of meaninglessness, of the lack of objective justice (because if no punishments exist, what stops people from murdering everyone without consequence), lack of guidance and evolution, and because it helps cope a lot with hardships of life. And drugs don't help either, they're mostly perceptions made INSIDE the brain, because that's precisely what drugs do, they rewire the brain more or less temporarily, creating those perceptions, but it doesn't make them real, no matter how real it 'feels'.
So, those are all of the reasons that led me to believe that there is no God. And possibly not an after-life either.
Do know i'm not trying to convert anyone to atheism, or spark a heated debate - although i have no problems with a calm and rational one -, but just sharing what became of christianity with me. However I do think that faith is indeed a core part of a functioning society, even though I do not believe in it (anymore).
>inb4 tl;drUnderstandable, but you're missing on an interesting train of thought, in my opinion.
No.314339
wizardry is disregarding females and acquiring magic
archwizardry is disregarding the world and acquiring holiness
No.314576
>>310060Based and pragmaticpilled
No.314610
>>314095What a mix of conclusions to arrive at. Sounds Finnish for some reason
No.315070
God helped me to stay away from impure acts during 4 months. The moment I started to neglect prayer, I fell back into it. Be careful. In a minute you can lose it all.