/lounge/ - Lounge

>>315919
No. It is the same as in any OS.
Maybe try something different than the Windows Explorer; a bunch of other tools are available.

>>315921
I mean the file folder,sorry

>>315924
Folders are more or less the same in most operating systems since they're all based on standards that were defined in the 1970s. Operating systems that work differently do exist (notably KaiOS, which is a fork of Linux intended for use on flipphones which are based on telephone MTP protocol filesystems), but they are considered even harder to use and harder to think about abstractly a direct consequence. MTP is not ultimately super complicated as a folder system but it operates on a very low level, very close to the device hardware so it turns from needing to see some representation of your system's abstract file tree structure into needing to know your file tree structure and how that tree is laid out on the disk itself.

On a standard linux install it's pretty much like a standard windows or mac file structure. There are also similar tools in Linux as in Windows; fdsk (linux) and chkdsk (windows) serve many of the same functions. And just like how in Windows you have to start up in safe mode without the main partition active to run chkdsk, you will want a separate bootable drive (maybe a partition, maybe a usb) for filesystem recovery in Linux. It is not better or easier in Linux than in Windows.

However, there are a lot of different filesystem definitions inside of Linux and there are certain things such as recovery tools or file indexing and journaling tools that are different depending on if you're using different filesystems. "btrfs" - alternatively pronounced "butter fess" and "better filesystem" - is currently a community favorite and is widely supported by disk recovery tools. It has been years since I last checked but I believe ZFS is the fastest in terms of data retrieval and data writing but does not have much if any ability to recover deleted files. ext4 is the workhorse system, not as fast on read and write and not as easy to recover files as btrfs, I think it had some advantages early on but I have forgotten what those were.

>>315929
>notably KaiOS, which is a fork of Linux intended for use on flipphones which are based on telephone MTP protocol filesystems)
damn that's cool.
I have a question that's not about OS but I don't know where to ask so I'll post it here:I use Google Chrome and when I want to search for something about the cyberpunk genre, Google only offers me sites related to the video game Cyberpunk 2077, but I don't want to go to sites about the video game Cyberpunk 2077; I want links that are cyberpunk but aren't cp2077. I tried searching with "-cyberpunk 2077" but it still doesn't work. my question is: if I use chromium or waterfox (or other alternative browser that's not from big companies like google or explorer; maybe tor??), will I have more results and more variety when searching for cyberpunk things or not?

>>315943
Not in that case no. Browsers do have some impact on the functionality of a site but would not change how google's search system works on a fundamental level. Ad blockers for instance should only block ads, not real results.

Even other search engines would probably not do you much good. With every year that passes, fewer and fewer search engines offer advanced tokenizing features, and the first feature to go is always going to be Excludes because they're used to exclude results you don't want, results that some other party is likely paying good money to make you see, and smaller alt search engines are going to be more responsive to financial incentives than bing or google. And inbuilt search systems won't fare any better. Firefox's new governance wants to move towards personalized advertisement, Brave Browser already does as much, Microsoft is building ads into its AI search with more zeal than it is building scientific accuracy or user safety.

Cyberpunk 2077's search optimization is based on its recency, its popularity, its longevity (having resurged in popularity after it got enough dlc to stop having the reputation of "that hopelessly broken piece of shit"), in how much was published about it, and how much mainstream discussion it received as both a controversy and as ultimately a high profile AAA game. It did not simply game the system, and its ranking is not artificial.

Your best bet is to get more specific in a particular direction leading away from 2077 by including more terms, not by trying to exclude terms, since none of the engines want to let users exclude incorrect results anymore.

>>315945
>Cyberpunk 2077's search optimization is based on its recency, its popularity, its longevity
that's the problem, it is too popular and when I search for cyberpunk on a browser, the browser think I'm searching about cp2077 while not. it's annoying

>>314581
simplest way to put it is all computers just use binary code. the OS is a giant calculator and compiler which interprets strings of 1 and 0 and uses the different strings to present a graphical interface so you can interact with it instead of just seeing white noise or 1 or 0. if you had no OS at all you wouldn't be able to do anything but a blank screen and white noise coming out the speakers like raw electricity. even the simplest computers back in the day needed some type of OS to make a graphical interface. the strings are bits, i guess it started at 2 bit computers as in one 1 or one 0.

>>315956
nowadays computers really have two os, the boot os and the main os that you actually use. i assume the oldest first computer of all time had no GUI, just a boot os and was probably like a morse code telegraph or something interpreting 2 bit 1 and 0 strings. just a live wire pretty much. a telegraph all it needed to boot was like an electrical capacitor and electricity. it was on when you plugged it in.

>>315957
i just looked at a diagram of a telegraph, it's essentially a live wire or a simple circuit, the bits come from the telegraph. 1 is open 0 is closed. so wire on and wire off. a computer is just a telegraph over and over at a tiny scale. all computing is just a bunch of circuits shooting pulses of electricity. computers now are just very fast telegraphs at tiny scale.

>>315957
Also now that VM's can run on basically any crappy modern device, you don't have to choose.

I have the option of working completely at home with zero human contact due to doing graphics design, so they gave me a Mac Studio to do that.
The m2 max apple chip is actually powerful enough to run almost any windows app directly through real time x86 translation.
Then if that isn't enough, I still run a Windows 11 instance in VMWare most of the time, because I prefer the GUI of Windows over Apple.

In an ideal world, OS's would all be free, and they would be highly optimized GUI'd versions of Linux with all the drivers you could ever hope for.
But we don't live there sadly. And the average person will never use console commands. They want pressable or clickable icons.

>>315957
>nowadays computers really have two os, the boot os and the main os that you actually use.

wisdom post

wisdom post

can I get a more technical answer on why we can't have one program that can borrow other programs on all the OS? why we need to rewrite it whenever we change OS?

>>316076
I see thank you

>>316075
It requires a lot of processing power which is expensive. Only Apple silicon CPU's (made after 2020) can rapidly translate x86, powerpc or other architecture commands to ARM and developing the Rosetta 2 real time emulator in Mac OS X to do it natively cost billions of dollars and thousands of programmers.

The reason why Windows can't emulate Linux or Mac programs is money. It is a gargantuan project to pull off for pretty minimal gain.

Also, Microsoft already has the upper hand in market share and likely always will. They aren't interested in running competitors apps real time through translation layers.
If someone complains they'll just tell that person to run the program through a virtual machine, not Windows.

>>316077
No problem. Sorry for the double post

>>316080
>double posting
it's ok
well I guess beside making your own OS and writing all the programs possible to fit and make everything work is impossible…or maybe AI will do all the work in the future, who knows…

why game companies don't let their game work with linux by letting people coding the program needed for the game to run on linux? if so, the companies don't need to hire or pay too much money to code their game again on linux?

>>316247
Thee isn't a single incentive, financial or reputational, for a studio to program their game for Linux or even accept any help from anyone willing to port it for free.

This is the topic for me since interfacing with hardware and dealing with operating systems is quite literally my job right now. Without operating systems we would be stuck with hardware that performs a very specific task. OSes allow the flexibility in computer programming that allows us to use out computers to do a fuck ton of different things relatively easily.

>>316075
It is because the way they interact with the hardware is wildly different.

Imagine there are two personal shoppers you can choose from, Pablo and Jason. They both can buy oranges for you from the same store. Their task is exactly the same, but you can only work with Jason because Pablo only knows how to speak spanish. This is similar in to how software can only work in operating systems that it understands.

From a techinical perspective, the complexity lies in teh software stack's architecture. At the fountation, we have the hardware itself. The hardware is constant and unchanging, like our store in the analogy. hwoever to interact with the hardware, we need software drivers, which are essentially translators between the application software and the hardware. The drivers send specific commands to teh hardware, instructing it to execute pre-programmed tasks on its chips. This is where we encournter our first major compatibiltiy issue: drifers are fundamentally different between oeprating system, which creates an immediate roadblock in cross-platform compatibility.

But the complexity extends far beyong the drivers. Above the driver level, there is a chain of operating system specific software components. A software applicatation must traverse through potentally hundreds of different software layers to ulimately use the hardware to accomplish its tasks. Each operating system implements this chain differently, using its own set of protcols, APIs, and system calls. To sucessfuly itneract with the hardware, knowledge of this entire chain for the specific operating system is needed. It is like knowing not just the language, but alsot he exact protocol for howt o contact your shopper, when they are available, what forms need to be filled out, and their preferred method of delivery, all of which will likely be completely different between Pablo's and Jason's systems.

>>316252
ok I got it 90% of what you said. So I hope my question reflect what I understood: Why are there different ways to decrypt hardware with software? let's take an example, I have a hardware that is made to do a task and is only used to do this task (so the only purpose for which the hardware was created is this very task) and nothing else. so the hardware contains components that are programmed to make the hardware work with software that will encode the components of the hardware and will be able to be retranscribed on the OS. why should we have another way to encode the hardware??
is there a chip/component with a program inside the hardware or is the software responsible for that?

>>316263

The hardware itself can only be controlled in one way, but the difference happens with the drivers, since it is software.

function processArray(arrayIn){
turn led1 on
move arrayIn to component memory
execute instruction 1
execute instruction 3
move result into output stream
turn led1 off
}

Anything that wants to use this driver to process arrays with that hardware component will need to know of this driver and its processArray function. Another OS will have its own drivers to do the same thing, but since the drivers were written by someone else the function names will be completely different. A program compiled for an OS that relies on the first drivers and that the corresponding will not be able to work with the drivers on the second OS. Yes, ultimately the same instructions are sent to the hardware but the program will have no idea how to navigate the stack to send those instructions.

The thing is that things dont need to be this way. You can design a OS that gives programs direct access to the hardware. MS-DOS and other early operating systems were like that, but that was found to be a terrible idea for security and stability reasons. I wouldn't be surprised if programs were easily transferable between OSes in the early days because of how simple things were.

>>316266
wait when you write an OS, you're also need to build a system that wouldn't be hacked easly?! Thta's insane because writing an OS is hard ,plus you need to know some defences over hack?!

>>316268
The only requirements you need to follow are the ones laid out by the customer. If security isnt an issue then you can make a super insecure OS. Most OSes in the wild are crazy insecure, but you don't really know about them because they are all on offline embedded devices where the OS only really exists to make it easier for the manufacturer to load programs onto it.

If I had to create my own OS, I would set up an online library with all the software created by others, like that, instead of going on the internet, you would just have to go to the online library, look for a software, install it and finally use it.
my OS will be opensource/libre so everyone can do whatever they want with it is this what open source mean anyway? haha

>>316808
well,i-is it a good idea?

>>316808
That's what the arch AUR is. Unless you have some difference that you didn't mention in that post.

>>316936
yeah thats exactly what arch AUR does, sharing softwares you've made with others thank you now I know it exists

>>316808
>I would set up an online library with all the software created by others, like that, instead of going on the internet, you would just have to go to the online library, look for a software, install it and finally use it.
Like how it is now? Linux, MacOS, Windows, Android, Playstation, and Nintendo have been like this for years. Downloading software from a webpage viewed through a web browser is secondary to having the software delivered through a centralized hub. And thank goodness software can still be grabbed the old way. Having all of your content hosted on a single massive database is costly and extremely vulnerable to just about every human threat conceivable.

>my OS will be opensource/libre so everyone can do whatever they want with it is this what open source mean anyway? haha
Pretty sure having your software dubbed "libre" by FOSS dorks requires you to put BLACK LIVES MATTER in the splash screen.

>>316950
>Having all of your content hosted on a single massive database is costly and extremely vulnerable to just about every human threat conceivable.
thank you for enlighting me. it was a bad idea. better share a software through all access possible (internet, cds, etc)
👍

lol is this true? windows is embarrasing. the only notoriety it has is all the softwares work with their OS because that's what everyone use and is the most popular

>>317013
Anything Microsoft has done in the past 10 years is just a worse version of what they did with Win7 and hell, even Win10. That's what you get when your tech company is led by retarde business majors who have no idea or interest in the products they're making and are just chasing trends like subsciptions or gen-AI. Once they axe support for Win10 later this year I'm gonna switch to Linux full time.
Recommend reading this if you want to learn more https://www.wheresyoured.at/the-cult-of-microsoft/

>>317013
>The official windows 11 ISO
Is still in Beta.
>You can only crate a Windows USB from Windows
Not true. Rather, it's that any other bootable ISO can't be made by Linux on account of the fact that Linux autoformats any new drives attatched to it in some form or another of LFS, which Windows doesn't bother supporting because it's shit.
>takes 30 minutes to flash it
As it does to flash linux
>So I call up and a friend and ask him
Linux users don't have friends. He called his male prostitute.
>I find a Reddit thread
He uses Reddit so more likely he himself is the male prostitute and he called up one of his clients.
>Windows can not install if multiple SSDs are installed
Nonsense. Sounds like his mainboard might have software limitations.
>The boot manager installed on the USB
Then he fucked up the partitioning and formatting despite the Windows installer providing the most simple GUI manager in the install process. Linuxtards can't even in to GUI
>Hours go by so I gave up
What a pansy fag
>Made by a Trillion [CAPITAL T] dollar company. And costs $139
1. That's why they have money and the Linux foundation has aids
2. Commies will literally use inferior software before pirating from a company they consider morally bankrupt.
>And yet it's still unusable garbage
If that were 1% true it wouldn't be the most popular desktop OS in the world like he said.

>I'm so fed up
LE SIGH
>If a game doesn't run on Linux then I'm not playing it
Self-hating gamer TORTURES himself. Also, lol @ "games running on Linux" requires multiple Microsoft-backed emulation layers and non-FOSS code.

>>317014
ok I'll read it thank you for answering
>>317015
oh so the guy who wrote >>317013 is full of shit, ok. thank you for answering

>>317014
ok I read it. It is intresting that companies like microsoft use pseudo science things to manage a a company and it looks lile it will collapse because of voodoo managing. plus that indian who's think is a god lol. frankly this is scary, those big IT companies will collapse if they keep hiring people who think they can manage a company this big with pseudo science bullshits. if thoses companies goes bankrupt, they will create a huge economic crisis. this is serious and concerning.
whats indian and IT anyway?!

>>317013
This looks like a firsthand account so it's almost certainly true. The question is whether or not his experience will match a normal person's experience.
>I have 2 SSD's, one for Linux and one for Windows.
This is an unusual arrangement and is something that Microsoft has been ostentatiously hostile against supporting in the past. It is not unbearably difficult for MS to support hybrid configurations in server centers, Azure will work if you have some windows machines and some linux machines on the same services, but there's a much bigger ask involved in deeming it solely MS's fault if a single computer is running as a chimaera.
https://www.osnews.com/story/140553/microsoft-update-breaks-grub-on-dual-boot-systems/

>USB ISO
That's not how Microsoft wants anyone to install Windows and that's not going to be a normal activity for a normal Windows user.

Even performing a Windows installation at all is not a normal thing to do. People mostly either receive an installed Windows OS or upgrade from a previously installed Windows OS. There is no real incentive for Microsoft to make it easy for an end user to install windows, since it's not a thing most users ever do. Since Windows 8 at the very latest Linux's user-friendly distros have been much easier to install. The challenge with Linux is not and has not for the last decade been getting the thing onto a computer, it's the daily grind and integration with other existing systems. Unix CUPS printer systems (incl. Apple's, not just Linux) have recently-ish been revealed to have had critical security flaws, as an example.

>problems and time
Yes. Windows is not as hard to install as a Hackintosh system but it is increasingly difficult with every new edition to the point that said difficulty is becoming common knowledge. But that common knowledge is still largely irrelevant because, again, installing windows is not a normal thing for windows users to do.

>>317090
>That's not how Microsoft wants anyone to install Windows
When buying Windows from Microsoft, they offer it as an ISO. Literally the only way to get a legal copy of Windows that isn't preinstalled is by burning the ISO they give us to a USB. This ISO is 100% free from their website too and can be installed and used even without a license. This is by all means how Microsoft wants everyone to install Windows.

>Windows is not as hard to install as a Hackintosh system but it is increasingly difficult with every new edition
The Install process between XP and Windows 11 only has one additional step asking if the user would like to connect to the Internet and log in to a Microsoft account so that all previous settings and programs can be automatically recovered. It's one single optional step that expedites using a new computer.

>>317091
>you don't have to use an online account you can still run a home account just unplug your ethernet and remember to hit SHIFT+F10+ipconfig /release bro it's optional everyone does it
This is not a normal or straightforward thing to do when installing an operating system.

>>317090
OP here, when you install a new version of windows, your computer don't work someone said to upgrade our windows 7 I think I forgot, to the new one to our family computer, so my father bought the CD to upgrade our pc's OS (new windows) and it completly destroy our pc, it was slow and crashed everytime. does it happen when you change the distro(???) with linux?

>>317093
It absolutely can, if you decide to reformat your drive when installing or make any of a thousand other missteps. Changing the distro is typically something that involves upgrade guides, even if changing in-line e.g. SUSE LEAP to a new version. That's why rolling release distros became more popular in the first place.

>>317092
Making strawmen with the word BRO in it really is all that you insecure Linux trannies have these days, isn't it?

Nothing you said is remotely applicable. Not assigning a Microsoft account upon install just creates a local account be default, which is just a username for keeping files organized. If you don't activate Windows, all it does is keep that "Activate Windows Now" icon at the bottom of the screen.

>>317093
>someone said to upgrade our windows 7 I think I forgot, to the new one to our family computer, so my father bought the CD to upgrade our pc's OS (new windows) and it completly destroy our pc, it was slow and crashed everytime.
Third world old man problems

>>317095
how old are you?

*arch linux user with swaywm and qutebrowser*

>>317108
(:3)?

I have heard that with steamOS, Linux gaming will finally go mainstream. How true is that? I might switch if that's the case.

>>317182
Mainstream in a limited sense.
If it works out as planed it would make a gaming console experence for PC gaming.
Great for people looking for PC gaming handhelds or for a steam box that only does gaming. Specifically gaming through steam.
But it's not a full desktop OS that will convert people into proper Linux users. It can not easily do things outside of it's specialization.
Sure eventually people will hack it in all sorts of ways to do whatever, but such people are already power users who can likely make whatever computer system they get their hands on do whatever they want regardless of what it's designed to do.

why is there different distro? it's weird, why they don't do like windows? there's one OS windows but for linux there's a lot of versions, why so?

>>317184
There are actually several versions of each windows generation.

But to answer your question.
Anyone with the knowledge, time, and will, can create their own distro since it's open source.

Meanwhile Windows is closed source and created/developed by a single company who has ultimate control over what windows will and won't be.

That said the linux developers tend to be ultra gay radical leftist extremest, while windows developers are soulless corpos.
Nether is ideal.

>>317185
ok I see thank you
>That said the linux developers tend to be ultra gay radical leftist extremest, while windows developers are soulless corpos.
Nether is ideal.
its time to make our own OS haha

I use Lubuntu, I love it. No bloat, just what I need.

>>317185
Apple's OS X is the ultimate user friendly Linux distro which is very intuitive to use, and much smoother and snappier than Windows.

Unfortunately it's maintained by a shitcorporation that I refuse to give money to, and Hackintosh solutions are wonky at best (driver support etc)