/lounge/ - Lounge

>>314581
>lainposter
>actually tech-illiterate
Heh, it's always like this.
>I don't understand what an OS is
>Yet each OS does the same thing: start programs
>Does one OS do something different that another OS doesn't?
>all execute applications in the same way
I'm not exactly a tech guru myself but the way I understand it is that while at face value it may look like OSs do the same thing which is launching programs, they do things differently behind the scenes so to speak, like the submerged part of an iceberg, which includes managing resources, input/output, etc.
Since different OSs work differently inside, programs have to be specially tailored for each OS, so if the developer is not interested in making versions of a program for some OSs, they won't run on them.
>why are there several OS?
>why then create different OS if they all do the same thing?
>why create another (OS)
Because people making OSs didn't like some part of other OSs (as I described above) and thought they could make better. They could also contribute to open source OSs, but if the technological vision is too different they have to make their own.
>does this mean that one OS is worse than another?
It depends on the user's needs and purposes.
>Why is Linux favored by computer enthusiasts instead of Mac OS and Windows?
It's open source and more customizable. For example you can easily change the desktop environment (see pic) entirely on Linux while on Windows and MacOS you're stuck with only one. Also for people who value privacy Linux doesn't spy on you, and even if it did, people would be able to remove that since it's an open source OS.
>why Linux can't launch video games (I hear that often).
Because game developers often don't make versions of their games for Linux. There are programs called "compatibility layers" that try to simulate an OS on another OS to run its programs, and more concretely, Linux has Wine and Proton for running Windows software, but it's not perfect.

>>314582
>lainposter
>actually tech-illiterate
>Heh, it's always like this
I know, I know.
another question:
why linux has a lot of diffrent linux (fedora, gentoo, etc…) why and what do they do to be diffrent in the first place?

>>314582
>Since different OSs work differently inside, programs have to be specially tailored for each OS, so if the developer is not interested in making versions of a program for some OSs, they won't run on them.
so if no one wants to make a programm that runs on your OS (let's say I made my own OS) it means I must create my own programms because no one want to run their programms on my OS?

>>314583
I'd say that the major difference between Linux distributions is the package manager, which is the program you use to download and install software. They connect to different repositories (servers that contain the software) and organize things in different ways, which is why they are incompatible. Distros may have other big differences like the "init system" (systemd is currently the most popular one but some people don't like it for various reasons), but otherwise the majority of Linux distributions are redundant and just change little things that you can easily change yourself like what desktop environment it comes with, etc.
Some of the major ones are:
Debian - Focused on stability so the programs are rarely updated (it spawned Ubuntu which has several problems, and Mint which fixes those problems)
Red Hat - I don't know much about it but it's more corporate (spawned Fedora)
Arch - Focused on customization and the programs are updated ASAP (it's considered to be hard but it really isn't if you know the Linux and command line basics)
Gentoo - Even more focused on customization since all the programs are compiled by you and you can easily make minor modifications to programs to make them faster, etc (it's considered to be quite hard)
Slackware - The oldest Linux distro, and it doesn't have a proper package manager so you have to manage installing software yourself
And there are some other minor ones that are NOT off-shots of existing distros, such as Void Linux, etc. Also there's a thing called Linux from Scratch which is a manual that teaches you how to make your personal Linux distro from scratch.
There are projects like AppImage that work like EXEs on Windows so you can just download a Linux program from the browser and run it on any distro.
>>314584
Essentially yes, but making an OS is a very hard and time-consuming task so making some simple utilities would be very quick and easy in comparison. You could also try to port existing programs from other OSs, or make a compatibility layer like Wine to run Windows or Linux programs.
But ultimately, there's no good reason to make an OS other than the technical details, so if you just want to make an OS that looks a certain way or whatever, you're better off just making a Linux distro or desktop environment.

>>314586
To add onto that, interestingly enough the most complicated programs are web browsers, particularly the big ones which are Chrome/Chromium and Firefox (and their off-shots like Brave, LibreWolf, etc). It's really mind-boggling how insanely bloated and clusterfucked the big browsers are, but the reality is that you must use them if you want to access the normie websites coded by Pajeets full of complex JavaScript and whatnot. Thus they're only available on the popular OSs like Windows/MacOS/Linux. Niche OSs usually have simpler browsers which can only access simpler websites like this one (though I'm pretty sure that the stupid Google captcha required for posting wouldn't work…).

>>314587
I am also interested about web browsers and internet access and https. so with normal browser you need just to type a key word to get recommendations. I know also that some website need to be entered manually (so you must know the https exactly to access the webpage , and other https (lets call it like that because I don't know haha) that need thor for exemple. what I want to know if is it possible to make a browser that can run all of these kinds of https into one browser (the goal of this is to have a browser with more websites than the actual browsers(because google let you only search for 20 or so pages then there's no other websites anymore)
>>314586
so what can be done is to make programms that run every other programms then, right?
why terry davis made templeOS, was it only because of schizophrenia?

>>314588
>I am also interested about web browsers and internet access and https. I know also that some website need to be entered manually (so you must know the https exactly to access the webpage , and other https (lets call it like that because I don't know haha) that need thor for exemple
By "https" you either mean URL, like "https://wizchan.org/lounge/res/314581.html", right?
>so with normal browser you need just to type a key word to get recommendations.
What do you mean? Search engine suggestions, like typing "cute" and it suggests "cute cat", "cute font", etc? Or website/URL suggestions based on your history, bookmarks, and open tabs? Pretty sure those things are easy to enable/disable on common browsers.
>what I want to know if is it possible to make a browser that can run all of these kinds of https into one browser (the goal of this is to have a browser with more websites than the actual browsers
That's a curious idea. .onion (dark net) websites need a TOR connection to be accessed, and you can have a TOR connection without the official TOR browser. There are alternative protocols to HTTP(S) such as Gemini and Gopher (eg. "gemini://example.com" instead of "https://example.com"), and those wouldn't be hard to implement. I'm pretty sure that you can install add-ons for all these things on existing browsers like Chrome/Chromium or Firefox, though, so that doesn't warrant making a new browser. But if for some other reason you wanted to create a new browser, that could be a convenient feature to add.
>(because google let you only search for 20 or so pages then there's no other websites anymore)
That's a search engine problem, though, not a browser one. Browser (Chrome, Firefox, Safari, Edge…) is the program on your computer that you use to access web pages, and search engine (Google, Bing, Yandex, DuckDuckGo…) is a website that allows you to search for websites/web pages. In theory any browser (that can run the necessary web bloat) can access any search engine, and you can also change the default search engine (the one when you search things on the browser's bar) on the browser.
You could in theory make a browser or a browser extension that pulls the results from several search engines (and removes duplicate entries) to be able to show more results, though. Actually, there are "meta search engines" which are like search engines but they get their results from other search engines (Searx, for example), but from my experience they're often broken.
>so what can be done is to make programms that run every other programms then, right?
I'm not a master hacker myself so I don't know exactly. But it would involve studying the OS you want to run the programs of, and also how to convert the programs' instructions into instructions that your OS can understand.
>why terry davis made templeOS, was it only because of schizophrenia?
Mostly yes, after all he claimed to makes his OS as a temple of God. However, but his OS is genuinely unique in various ways, such as having 16 color 640x480 resolution, using a special programming language he created called "Holy C" and a special compiler he created too, and using documents containing images, 3D models, hyperlinks, etc for most things instead of simple text files.
Anyway, this is a long shot and might sound like a weird question, but… are you by any chance the guy who asked on a certain other imageboard if you can make "energy watermelons" by watering watermelons with an energy drink?

>>314589
>are you by any chance the guy who asked on a certain other imageboard if you can make "energy watermelons" by watering watermelons with an energy drink?
energy watermelon? haha good one, no I'm not that guy, sorry
I may have other question conceening OS later on, hope you'll be there😊

>>314589
>By "https" you either mean URL, like "https://wizchan.org/lounge/res/314581.html", right?
yes, I forgot it is called url.
I have another question:
what available OS lack of that should be added because very needed. also, it seems that the only thing an OS does is executing a program manualy, am I
right?
me when you answer my questions :3

>>314591
>what available OS lack of that should be added because very needed
The wording is a bit confusing… You mean what OSs lack compatibility layers for other OSs? In that case it would be a lot of them, or most, even. That's the reality. However, relying too much on compatibility layers for other OSs is not necessarily a good thing, since it retards an OS' own ecosystem. It's good if at least the basic programs for an OS are native (or ports).
For example, there's a reason why Wine is mostly used for games. It's because Linux already has a rich ecosystem of non-game software to do a lot of tasks, but since games mostly do not exactly serve a utilitarian purpose like normal software and are more artistic, they are not exactly interchangeable, so there's no choice but running the other OS's games instead of making your own, unless it's a simple and very technical game where the artistic elements are not as important (eg. Minesweeper, Tetris, Snake, etc).
>also, it seems that the only thing an OS does is executing a program manualy, am I right?
That's a bit of an oversimplification but ultimately it's kind of like that, I guess… an OS manages all the under-the-hood stuff needed to make a program run, so that each software developer doesn't have to go through the trouble of adding that stuff to his program himself. You can see it this way, a computer is just a bunch of pieces of metal and wires with electrical signals going through them, and a program is just a certain combination of tiny magnetic switches. An OS does all the magic needed to convert those physical things into something that you can see on a screen and interact with with your keyboard and mouse.

>>314594
sorry, I meant this:
I wanted to say: in your opinion, what are the available/most well-known OSes lacking that would push you to make your own OS, or do the available OSes have everything you need for the moment? and there is no point in creating yet another OS?

>>314595
Personally Linux fits my needs, but it has many annoyances. Mind you, though, making an OS is not a joke, it took Terry 10 years just to make TempleOS (which is not enough to fit the needs of the vast majority of people) and that's with him being a genius. To realistically make an OS that could fit the needs of non-negligible amounts of people, it would have to be a collective effort and it would need clear goals.
In my opinion making a browser to destroy Chrome and Firefox would be more important. By that I mean a browser that has the goal of being able to access modern/bloated websites and having modern features while NOT being a barely working gigantic bloated mess (reminder that Chrome has more lines of code than the base of Linux), and having many add-ons (possibly being able to use add-ons for Chrome and Firefox), customization options, and useful features all around.

>>314596
>In my opinion making a browser to destroy Chrome and Firefox would be more important. By that I mean a browser that has the goal of being able to access modern/bloated websites and having modern features while NOT being a barely working gigantic bloated mess
the problem is that if we make a search engine to compete with Chrome/Firefox, we would have to encourage people to post their website in our browser but also guarantee them that there will be no deletion or archiving of their website. is it good like that?
am I right?

>>314600
Sorry, I'm a bit confused by your question again, but I'll try my best…
>if we make a search engine to compete with Chrome/Firefox
Chrome and Firefox are browsers, not search engines.
>we would have to encourage people to post their website in our browser
In case you mean search engines, then I think they usually find new websites automatically somehow, but there are some niche engines like wiby.me (this one is for old school-style websites) where websites have to be manually user-submitted (and reviewed by the admin).
>guarantee them that there will be no deletion or archiving of their website
I'm not sure what the "archiving" part is about, but in case of a search engine, there's no way of guaranteeing that you won't delete things, you can only speak with your actions. For example Google and other mainstream engines censor a lot of websites that they don't like, so they've built a bad reputation and are not trusted by those who know about that.
But if you're talking about some sort of browser feature, then as long as the browser is open source (and the code is not super complex like the big browsers), people can check the code and make sure of that.

>>314611
thank for answering, I just want to fill my curiosity but it's going nowhere and I waste people's time (T_T) its just I was daydreaming about making an OS by myself and being so perfect that it beat linux windows and macOS

what each distro does?

>>314733
>what each distro does?
Nothing besides crash your system.

>Arch
Dysfunctional, complicated on purpose
>Debian
Dysfunctional, complicated on purpose
>Fedora
Dysfunctional
>Foresight
Literally what
>Gentoo
Dysfunctional, complicated on purpose
>Mandriva
Literally what
>Mint
Dysfunctional, made to teach Africans about computers
>Ubuntu
Dysfunctional, all decent devs went to make their own less functional version, with blackjack, and hookers
>kubuntu
Dysfunctional, has blackjack
>xubuntu
Dysfunctional, has hookers
>openSUSE
Dysfunctional, for single-board toy computers
>PCLinuxOS
Literally what
>redhat
Dysfunctional, abandoned
>sabayon
Literally what
>Slackware
Dysfunctional on purpose
>Slax
Literally what

>>314734
I see, yet people prefer linux over a working windows, right?

>>314737
That anon is being a bit dramatic if not disingenuous. Both Linux and Windows often crash, and when something more serious breaks, at least on Linux you have a chance to fix it yourself, while on Windows you're fucked and have to reinstall the OS or try your luck with a tech repair pajeet.

>>314738
oh ok, he was a little bit misleading, right?
so linux is still the best OS over windows/macOS

>>314739
>oh ok, he was a little bit misleading, right?
Well, Linux does kind of require you to learn new things, which in the long run is going to be beneficial, but for people unwilling to learn new things (which is a lot of people) it's easy to get the impression that Linux sucks and doesn't work.
>so linux is still the best OS over windows/macOS
It depends. Using Linux over Windows/MacOS is like riding a car as opposed to riding public transport. Linux is better if you want more control and privacy and are willing to learn and fix things yourself. Windows/MacOS is better if you want to turn off your brain and are fine with having a straightforward but shallow and intrusive experience. Additionally all of them have special use cases that others don't have such as Linux being good for servers and Windows/MacOS having some exclusive professional programs such as Adobe-slop and M$ Office.
However, I must say that MacOS does suck a lot and there's little reason to use it compared to Windows. It's even more restricted than Windows and it's weak in the game department like Linux (so, worst of both worlds), aside from the fact that it's not meant to just be installed on any PC and you have to buy Apple PCs which have a ton of problems including being overpriced and hard to repair. Most MacOS users are either backwards boomers, or hipsters who want to show off their fancy MacBook at Starbucks while complaining about capitalism on Xitter. The only valid use case for MacOS would be if you have the misfortune of requiring one of the very few super-snowflake programs that don't have any decent equivalent on Windows/Linux.
So in the end, it's more about Linux VS Windows. And… they don't have to be mutually exclusive. For example, you can use Windows for work and games, and Linux for general personal computing.
But overall, if you could only use one OS… Linux is best if you don't need special software and aren't serious about PC gaming, however, even in those cases, if you're really willing to learn and hack things, you can get around those problems.

>>314740
thank you. do you think linux will beat windows in coming years? maybe if a distro that works like windows comes out, windows will be dead. why not create a program on top of windows with linux so it works both for gaming and messing around? am I being clear? also does raspberry pi is considered is own OS/can create an OS with raspberry?

>>314741
>do you think linux will beat windows in coming years? maybe if a distro that works like windows comes out, windows will be dead
Unfortunately Micro$oft does a lot of shady shit to make sure that people will use Windows such as bribing governments to use Windows and Microsoft services in their institutions (eg. schools), computer manufacturers to pre-install Windows on their computers, etc. So it's not as much of a technical competition, but it would be more like fighting against a gigantic corporation and governments, which is impossible (excluding a revolution, etc etc). And Linux doesn't have the same reputation and name brand aspect of Apple slop either.
Therefore, even if Linux becomes very "user-friendly" and much better than Windows with no compromises, it would still be a thing mostly for tech people since normies are content using Windows. And at the same time, by making it too "user-friendly" and Windows-like to attract Windows users, it could be destroying itself and making it less usable to the "core" Linux userbase until they move to an even more niche OS like BSD.
But anyway, if theoretically Micro$oft made Windows 12 to be so insanely bad that even your neighbor Bob Joe would consider looking for a different OS, then that may be a way to gain some traction with non-tech people. But in
But maybe I'm just being pessimistic. Either way, I don't particularly care about the Linux market share… it works for me, so why should I care too much if everyone else uses it? It's not like social services (forums/imageboards, online games, messaging services, social media, etc) where it only makes sense to use them if other people do.
>why not create a program on top of windows with linux so it works both for gaming and messing around?
A thing like that exists already, it's made by Microsoft and it's called WSL. And personally I think that it's a silly concept… A Linux system running on top of Windows is going to share the same problems as Windows (spyware, resource-heaviness, etc), so at that point the only reason to use it is if you mainly use Windows but want to develop a program for Linux or want to use a Linux-only program. Also it's basically a virtual machine so the performance gets additionally worse.
>also does raspberry pi is considered is own OS/can create an OS with raspberry?
Raspberry Pi is just the name of the micro-computer running on an ARM CPU (ARM is a CPU architecture commonly used on phones and microcomputers, while desktops and laptops use x86 and x64 AKA 32-bit and 64-bit CPUs; basically, software is mostly incompatible between different CPU architectures and has to be specially tailored for them, aside from being specially tailored for each OS).
Raspberry Pi OS (formerly known as Raspbian) is the recommended OS but as far as I know it's just a modified ARM version of Debian Linux but with some educational and development programs pre-installed (and I presume that it has some aspects that take advantage of the Raspberry Pi), and it can probably be run on ARM devices other than the Raspberry Pi and on ARM virtual machines, and conversely, the Raspberry Pi can theoretically run any OS that supports its hardware (ARM CPU architecture, etc), which includes many Linux distributions or even Windows (though Windows would run really badly on something as weak as a Raspberry Pi). The only problem is software availability, since as I mentioned it has to be specifically tailored for each CPU architecture, however you could possibly compile/port open source software to ARM yourself without too much hacking, especially if it's written in a high level language like Java or Python.
Anyway, Raspberry Pis aren't that great and there are better microcomputers, aside from the fact that the Raspberry Pi company is very woke. And in the first place, there's not much reason to use a microcomputer as a normal PC…

>>314742
thank you very much answering my questions. since I started this thread and more and more answers comz up, I want to use a linux distro/linux but I'm tech illitrate so I'll stay on windows all my life I guess hahaha
>Using Linux over Windows/MacOS is like riding a car as opposed to riding public transport. Linux is better if you want more control and privacy and are willing to learn and fix things yourself. Windows/MacOS is better if you want to turn off your brain and are fine with having a straightforward but shallow and intrusive experience.
this phrase made me realise what is linux and understand better why people prefer to use linux. at the moment I don't have questions anymore…maybe next time
>raspberry is just a pc but weaker
ok I got it, it's only good for making robots, right? haha
>BSD
why some people leave linux for BSD?

>>314742
>Unfortunately Micro$oft does a lot of shady shit to make sure that people will use Windows such as
making an operating system that works

OP here I have new questions.
I would like to know why it is necessary to rewrite all the code of a program so that it works on a new OS (I am mainly thinking of programs that do not work on Linux but work on Windows/macOS).

what corresponds to what is written and which forms a drawing on the page? (pic related)

>>315298
>I would like to know why it is necessary to rewrite all the code of a program so that it works on a new OS

my guess is each OS has a different way of doing things and different requirements.

when linux users want to use windows programs they use an emulator called wine and wine pretends to be windows in front of the program so that the user can use it.

a big thing you might not know yet is the difference between open source programs and closed sourced programs.

open source programs have their sourcecode accessible, meaning you can read the instructions of the program and understand it.

closed source means you never really know what the program is doing, you can not read the instructions or change them, it is mostly a mystery what the program is doing on your computer.

>>315307
I see, libre programs are the best because you can modify them, and. closed one can containt data mining for exemple so like you said who knows what is there inside those programs.

which distro or linux version that is like windows (the most) should I get? and where to get it?

It is mandatory that you obtain a chinux to become one of us. otherwise, what could you possibly be?

>>315442
There are none that mimic Windows, and some which try to be like old Apple OS. You can theme any Ubuntu to look vaguely like Windows but the methodology is locked in the archaic need for terminal commands to complete basic tasks that any new programmer on windows could make an interface for in Visual basic. The functionality is locked behind, well, universal dysfunction of basic GUI operations such as thumbnail generation, file sorting, and folder navigation. Your Windows software will only function mildly after several CPU-intensive compatibility layers which are a pain to set up due to the aforementioned archaic methodology to program installation, the lack of common hardware support, and worst of all the distro treating you like a toddler by not even giving you permission to install certain softwares without opening it up is SpOoOkY RoOt MoDe OOOoooOOOh.

If you go in to Linux expecting a Windows experience, you'll only be disappointed with superficial similarities while the actual means of doing anything is wildly different and inferior (by design!).

>>315466
so getting a linux is for those who knows computer things (not for people like me who are tech illitrate)
>>315459
is chinux some cultist group?

why are program developers reluctant to develop their program for linux but do it very well for windows and iOS?

>>315442
>which distro or linux version that is like windows (the most) should I get? and where to get it?
Don't do this to yourself. If the interface is imitative then it will cause you serious misdirection, memory and navigational problems in practice. Do not fall for "windows-like" or "apple-like" linux systems. They're prioritizing the superficial over the structural.

In terms of a system having strong desktop support capabilities, decent documentation, a significant and financially stable maintenance cycle and community, and a similar rate-of-terminal-use:
OpenSUSE. I'd recommend starting with the most recent stable build, from their website.

The thing about using OpenSUSE is that it is built around an administrative toolset called "YAST." (Yet Another Setup Tool). YAST is a graphical control center which is similar to the various Windows control center interfaces, but came at these interfaces through its own design and its own priorities. SUSE Linux is technically the oldest commercial linux distribution, it was founded in the mid-90s before the kernel had really matured and YAST evolved alongside but separate from Windows GUI controllers. So you can use YAST to configure network connections, firewalls and antivirus, similar to Windows Defender in the control center, and also to manage your video and audio drivers, control updates, install software and manage software repositories, configure printers – anything and everything that a Windows control center or desktop management administration might allow. YAST is typically operated through a windows GUI, but if something goes terribly wrong with your desktop environment or video card driver then YAST can theoretically be accessed and operated entirely from the command line, or remotely over SSH. So if your system has a serious fault then the interface won't be some weird separate thing. In most Linux systems that are trying to be windows-like, there are several hundred different weird desktop-only customizations and processes that fall apart or fail separately and you are left completely stranded with no centralization if your GUI/desktop system stubs its toe too hard. Pop!OS has the "Pop Shop" instead of YAST as its software repo management scheme and this is bad because there's no tie between the interface of the Pop Shop and the command line tools for software management in the event that say Linus Sebastian accidentally removes his entire desktop environment.

YAST means that you do not have to become fluent in dozens of small interfaces to manage and set up your system. It solves the important problem, instead of the unimportant look and feel differences that "windows-like" desktop environment experiences often fixate on.

However, just like Windows, you WILL also have a separate NVIDIA or AMD driver controller which - again like Windows - will have its own device management GUI control center. And just like my last Windows install this separate driver might require some futzing through control files through a command line. Linux people will often tell you that you don't have to use command lines in Linux anymore–what they mean is that you don't have to do it any more than you do in Windows, and there is a crapton of windows command line use for anyone who, say, switches out an AMD or NVidia gpu for a competitor and needs to uninstall drivers, overclocks any hardware component, operates older hardware, or pirates video games.

>>315518
macOS*

some nerds have very strong opinions on how to do certain technological things. There are some who complain bitterly against unicode (how we encode characters in text) and would want the whole world to switch over to a different one for marginal benefits.
Operating systems are big and complex, and they grow in complexity like downhill snowballs. They, and every technology (programming languages, network stacks, anything really) accumulate a lot of cruft as they confront real-world problems, which leads to a lot of tradeoffs, and often alternatives emerge that try to address the other technologies' original unfitness to certain purposes and it's ad-hoc solutions to the problems thereby created.

>>315518
>so getting a linux is for those who knows computer things
Not even. To already have a fundamental understanding of computers wouldn't make learning Linux any easier. Remember that all of the standards DOS, Windows and to an extent Mac use were the established standard for decades, and it were Linux developers who sought to reinvent the wheel in every way possible to distance themselves from the two "not FREE as in FREEDOM" systems.

Linux is for people who disagree politically with Microsoft and Apple. Nobody else. Linus himself confirms this.

>>315562
Linux is for everyone with a brain at this point. The newest versions of windows is unmediated spyware. With the number of desktop environments available it's just like using microsoft products at this point anyways, except you might have to learn a few terminal input prompts.

Op just get linux Mint. The only real downside is you'll lose access to most forms of easy video gaming. Otherwise it's exactly the same except you get a bunch of free and esoteric applications you can download for functionality. You can always dual boot if you want the windows gaming experience. Personally, I'm just past it

>>315563
>spyware
I really don't care if Joe Biden can see my loli pics, the 3D ones even. At least my loli pics display correctly on Windows when I click on them.
>With the number of desktop environments available it's just like using microsoft products at this point anyways, except you might have to learn a few terminal input prompts.
And get used to using inferior software that requires more resources, is generally unstable, gets bogged down after prolonged use, and has crummy hardware support for devices that are plug-n-play on WIndows or Mac.

Here's a good way to determine if Linux is right for you:
Do you:
>Create art?
>Edit audio?
>Edit photographs?
>Edit videos?
>Play games?
>Record screens or video inputs?
>Livestream?
>Manage many image files?
>3D model?
>Develop games?
If yes to any, then Linux will hinder you substantially.

Do you browse the net and want, tinker with "unique software", and program Tetris in Golang? Then yeah, Linux will work, for the most part.

Linux isn't the "maker's" system anymore. Its prime directive is to give anyone ease of access to consume media. This is all it's been good for but still Windows is better for that. Yeah, maybe you can find some "esoteric software" on the GUI software library, like some LIDAR interpreter or thermal image descramblizer, but again that sort of thing is available free on Window too and works out of the box.

>>315564
I understand there are /g/ coder people on this site who have technical objections under various performance metrics, but for the average person using windows is simply because of a lack of comprehension. If you told an average person about the recall feature and windows spyware telemetry, most would start to think about switching to linux. Only the most clueless faith in authority boomers or liberal types push back against these issues when raised. And in their case it is an ideological barrier preventing their comprehension, not a real argument.

>Art, photographs
GNU
>Audio
audacity
>video games
steam is on linux. Only real complaint
>record screens, livestream
OBS
>manage image files
nonexistent problem
>3d modelling
Linux has CAD software
>develop games
fewer than 0.1% of the population

This functionality argument largely doesn't really apply to the needs of average people. It works like windows, it has generally competitive software in most creative fields. You probably don't use it, or maybe it isn't in the top echelon of professional applications. But that is a very small demographic and why people partition work and home computers.

If you use Windows knowing the privacy critique, you're basically as bad as a senior using modern facebook and have the exact same mentality in my mind

so linux will never be as developped as windows? even in the future

>>315565
>If you told an average person about the recall feature and windows spyware telemetry, most would start to think about switching to linux
No, because people don't care that "Windows is SPYING ON THEM" because they don't have a reason to care. We use our computers that run Windows. If Microsoft wants to know if we're using their software, let them send a ping to our copies. If we don't like it, we can turn off our Wi-Fi. You're approaching the "big brother wants to KNOW what you FAP to" conspiracy from a boring angle so you probably don't know about hardware backdoors and CPU telemetry broadcasting, but I'll say in advance that those things are designed to function independent of OS used so even if your Linux system is totally encrypted and offline, you're still just as vulnerable to the unmarked black van people as a Windows user.

>GNU
You mean GNUIMP? GIMP? A derelict old program with an ancient color range that requires third-party compatibility layers to even open any camera's raw image format. And what drawing tablets are supported on Linux? Windows has had a plug-n-play generic driver for them since Windows 7.
>audacity
Is a miniature splicing tool. Linux has no DAWs, no MIDI interfaces (Oooh wait Alesis drum machines use Linux but they're proprietary)
>steam is on linux. Only real complaint
Okay? But what games besides a few old Valve titles and GameMakerToolkit point-and-click adventures work on Linux? And why do they all require so much emulation?
>OBS
Goodbye hardware encode, goodbye generic video input capture devices.
>nonexistent problem
Every user of this site has thousands of images on his machine and Linux would crash trying to generate fresh thumbnails for them every time a folder was accessed.
>Linux has CAD software
Yeah let's use math to make a stand for our anti-government-spying tinfoil hats. You could have said Blender but again, no hardware rendering and even the OpenGL branch was abandoned on Linux. Again, no pen tablet support.
>fewer than 0.1% of the population
Which is infinitely more than the 0.0% who develop games on Linux.
Hell I'll throw you a bone and say that Linux has Davinci Resolve which can edit RAW images and video, but the emulation of what is basic functions in Windows requires a whopping 32GB minimum RAM, alongside the 8GB reserved by any Linux running a GUI.

>This functionality argument largely doesn't really apply to the needs of average people.
The functionality argument is the only argument that the average person cares about. What the fuck.

>If you use Windows knowing the privacy critique, you're basically as bad as a senior using modern facebook and have the exact same mentality in my mind
These "boomers" of yours know all about thee scary "privacy violations":. They know that when they log in, write a post, attach pictures, and press send, that what they posted is saved on a server, distributed to users who are qualified to see it, and that the account and IP address of the poster is recorded. But they don't care, because again, there's no reason to care.

You're accusing anyone who goes grocery shopping without a skimask on as being ignorant and actively violated, as if the grocery clerks want to make deepfake porn of every shopper's faces. Drop this tired cyberpunk roleplay; unless you're making child porn, the government and Microsoft don't care what you're doing.

>I really don't care if Joe Biden can see my loli pics, the 3D ones even. At least my loli pics display correctly on Windows when I click on them.
This phrase alone is enough to make sure that the poster is a fucking retard not worth bothering with.
>I really don't care if Joe Biden can see my loli pics
1. Is a normalfag who doesn't understand why privacy is important.
>the 3D ones even
2. Is a 3DPD worshiper and pedophile.
>At least my loli pics display correctly on Windows when I click on them
3. Has never touched Linux and gets all his opinions from e-celebs to make such outrageous claims.
As a bonus, I create art, play games, develop games, etc and Linux doesn't "hinder" me.
Also
>requires more resources, is generally unstable, gets bogged down after prolonged use
Those are literally arguments against Windows.

If not baiting, this poster is a gigaretard.

>>315599
>develop games
can you describ the games you've made/work on?

>>315599
>I create art… …develop games
No you don't.

>>315597
>You're accusing anyone who goes grocery shopping without a skimask on as being ignorant and actively violated, as if the grocery clerks want to make deepfake porn of every shopper's faces.

When did zoomers "nerds" become so retarded that they started parroting the normalfag "if you got nothing to hide then you shouldn't be worried" fag talk?

>>315597
this is such a cringe and bluebrained perspective I don't even know where to start. These concerns are not hypothetical, the gov is actively profiling anyone of interest, secretly tracking millions of people with malicious intent, and nowadays actively arresting innocent people on pricrime basis. If you followed current law and copper activity you would know this.

Every single time the monitoring issue has been publicly revealed there has been massive public blowback and for good reason. This moronic nuthan 2 hide shit is going to absolutely look pathetic as western governments become ever more oppressive in the years to come. Your mentality is exactly how innocent people who oppose the government on some issue or other end up getting swatted like fruit flies, because rather than addressing the technical issue and protecting yourself you'd rather cope in a bunch of ignorance.

>da gov wants to know my faps LUL!
They do actually, all this shit goes in a file and is used for personality assessments and possibly even cold approaches if they ever take interest in you. Absolute clown mentality and I hope the rest of the wizzies aren't stupid enough to start mimicking this. The more you know on this topic, the more paranoid you will get

>>315603
I'm just going to post one more rejoinder. Abuses of this system are not only possible, they happen every single day. The neons just cover it up and keep people in a state of retarded complacency. This is by design. They only have the jump on society if the general population places blind faith in them and refuses to protect themselves. Which is why all the stupid hollywood propaganda about gmen gets made, why mainstream history books are airbrushed, why the topic gets hidden in the corporate press to a theoretical rather than an active concern. TO keep the average person a vulnerable sheep for a vicious predator

>>315603
>When did zoomers
Zoom zoomies but zoomer doesn't boomers, doomer 4cuck shitchan reddit zoomer. zoom? blackpill zoomed.

>>315600
I post on ZZZ about my current project but I may eventually start posting here too once it's less vague and I have a demo out, stay tuned.

>>315613
That's nothing I ever said you stupid low attention span, disingenuous cunt. I'll take that as your resignation

>>315617
Maybe the wrong post was replied to

>>315614
ok thank you 👍 wizzie!

this is best bait thread since that thread about why are there so many loosers in alt right

>>315629
you're wrong

>>314581
>why are there several OS?
In the old days every computer you bought ran it's own custom OS which was incompatible with each other. Then in 1969 guys at Bell Labs (AT&T) invented UNIX which was a portable OS, but it was powerful and could only run on furniture-size mainframes in businesses or universities. Consumer-level computers still ran their own OSes. (Commodore 64, Apple II, etc.)
In 1981 IBM invented their own line of personal computers and commissioned Microsoft to develop the OS. Microsoft wrote the contract in a way that would allow them to sell MS-DOS to competitors. This led to companies like Compaq and Dell developing "PC-Compatibles" which became the PC market as we know it today, where multiple computers can run the same programs.
Meanwhile Apple released the Macintosh in 1984 which had a graphical user interface instead of a command line interface. Microsoft decided GUIs were the future and developed Windows which originally ran on top of MS-DOS. But most people didn't care, Macs were expensive and Windows was slow.
In the late 80s multiple companies (HP, Sun, NeXTSTEP, etc) were trying to sell different versions of UNIX, this was called the UNIX Wars and it hurt their ability to compete with Microsoft, who stopped selling UNIX completely to focus on Windows. UNIX workstations for heavy work like 3D graphics were popular in the 90s, but Microsoft killed the market after they released Windows NT.
Starting in 1991, free (copyleft) versions of UNIX like FreeBSD and Linux were developed. Linux became the most popular version and mostly replaced UNIX after the year 2000. Meanwhile Steve Jobs returned to Apple after working on NeXTSTEP, and MacOS 9 was replaced with the UNIX-based MacOS X.
>does this mean that one OS is worse than another?
subjective question
>Yet each OS does the same thing: start programs.
it's more complicated, you're only thinking in terms of GUI, not underlying systems
>why then create different OS if they all do the same thing?
historically they didn't
>Why is Linux favored by computer enthusiasts instead of Mac OS and Windows?
it's not locked down and (less) profit-driven than the others
>Does one OS do something different that another OS doesn't?
yes, package managers vs installer programs for example, or having a desktop GUI not tied to the underlying OS
>why Linux can't launch video games (I hear that often).
games weren't developed for it

>>315725
>games weren't developed for it
More specifically, graphics and logic libraries weren't able to be programmed with ample enough resource access to run on Linux due to the Linux foundation's refusal to work with relevant large companies.

The vast majority of games rely on freely available libraries for advanced math and rendering, most popularly Microsoft's DirectX. (For the record, DirectX redistributables were always allowed to be shipped with software that ran outside of Windows). Now in order for DirectX to do its thing, it needs permission to do what it wants with the GPU and CPU. Microsoft would allow signed (tested, virus and brick free) vendor drivers from GPU manufacturers to grant any version of DirectX the access it needed. These vendors also had permission from Microsoft to distribute beyond Windows, which got quite a lot of games on Mac, but the Linux kernal airheads denied that giving any program such access to the hardware needed was beyond reasonable for the sake of playing video games. It was regarded as a vulnerability that could introduce system failures and exploits. Then, through more security "fixes", the computer owner's own CPU and GPU were even more tightly locked out from him. Microsoft has made several attempts to get their DirectX working on Linux, but changes to the kernal have shut them out time and time again. It is 100% a matter of Linux devs shooting themselves in the foot because they don't trust Microsoft's DirectX suite (which is so reliant on being rebuilt-to-suit that the entire source code can be evaluated) to not fuck up their goal of being virus-free. It's why OpenGL is so slow (lack of access) and why equally as proprietary rendering engines such as Vulcan are allowed provided they adhere to the Linux foundation's strict code of software ethics or whatever. Ubuntu endorsing these libraries at all is the prime issue many Linux elitists don't like the distro,

Linux. So open source and FREE AS IN FREEDOM that the Committee of Acceptable Software doesn't let you install the phong shaders needed to render cum splats in HentaiMaiden3D.msi .

why can't we make a windows/macOS emulator to run on linux? so you can have a working machine when things are only developped for windows for exemple (video games especially) or even other programs that run well on windows and not on linux

>>315866
>(video games especially)
Proton exists and it's pretty good.

>>315868
how do I know if the game works with proton?

>>315881
you can also use lutris with the latest wine-ge build, it requires more tinkering than steam though

https://www.reddit.com/r/IntelligentGaming2020/comments/zdelt6/how_to_install_use_glorious_eggrolls_lutris/
https://www.gloriouseggroll.tv/how-to-get-out-of-wine-dependency-hell/ (tl;dr install winehq-staging, winetricks, etc.)

>>315887
I swear every videos I saw about IT thibgs have been in english with a thick accent like in the video, holy shit they're all indians…

how do I get a screen like that (the programs opened), does linux provide it when you install it?

>>315866
>windows/macOS emulator?
WINE project has existed for decades, and for the most recent one of those decades has been very good. I have heard that Microsoft has gone out of its way to make some things work worse in WINE than on Windows, particularly related to the Microsoft Office Suite (not videogames). I do not know if that is true at all. What I do know is that I can play Medieval II Total War with fewer problems than on my modern Windows rig. I am an oldster though. A lot of older Windows games run not-great on modern Windows. Microsoft has been a solid 9/10 in terms of backwards compatibility, Apple has only been a 6/10, but WINE is 9.8/10 - for the smaller domain of things that run well on WINE. Microsoft famously recommended using a pared-down Windows port of WINE (compiled for Windows 10) to play 16-bit era Windows games; I expect 32-bit support will follow a similar path.

Most of the complaints people have for Linux gaming involve "kernel-level anticheat" which is a major component of modern DRM. To understand kernel level anticheat, watch a few reviews about "what was responsible for the CrowdStrike crash" and then imagine video game publishers doing that. Or read about the Genshin Impact kernel-level anticheat hacks. Either's a good primer about the implications of kernel-level anticheat applications and why the Linux userbase is actively hostile to adopting them.

>>315897
It's called "ricing," named after car customization and detailing particularly as was once common in East Asian racing gangs. By definition it involves modifying desktop displays in ways that are not included in the installation. A desktop that displays according to installation defaults is defined as not being "riced." High resolution images are a start but once you have a background screen you'll want to try to color-balance your terminal, folder display, startbar etc. customization of which will all depend on the individual components you've installed. Most distros will make selections for you and most of those will look serviceable. In XFCE icons will usually be set to an Adwaita template, terminals will be a variant of xterm etc, if you don't have a central appearance management tool like OpenSUSE's YAST then you can usually customize appearance with a simple left click.

>>315904
>It's called "ricing,"
can I have a 3d thing spinin? I sound it cool.
also, can I have a user account with windows and the other one with linux?

>>315905
Yes, you can install Windows and Linux at the same time and choose between them during boot.
However, before attempting this make a backup of all your data - partitioning sometimes goes wrong.
(Happened to me twice in 20 years of using Linux, and that is more than enough.)

>>315917
is the files holder in linux more intuitive than windows. I hate the files managment in windows I found it confusing

>>315919
No. It is the same as in any OS.
Maybe try something different than the Windows Explorer; a bunch of other tools are available.

>>315921
I mean the file folder,sorry

>>315924
Folders are more or less the same in most operating systems since they're all based on standards that were defined in the 1970s. Operating systems that work differently do exist (notably KaiOS, which is a fork of Linux intended for use on flipphones which are based on telephone MTP protocol filesystems), but they are considered even harder to use and harder to think about abstractly a direct consequence. MTP is not ultimately super complicated as a folder system but it operates on a very low level, very close to the device hardware so it turns from needing to see some representation of your system's abstract file tree structure into needing to know your file tree structure and how that tree is laid out on the disk itself.

On a standard linux install it's pretty much like a standard windows or mac file structure. There are also similar tools in Linux as in Windows; fdsk (linux) and chkdsk (windows) serve many of the same functions. And just like how in Windows you have to start up in safe mode without the main partition active to run chkdsk, you will want a separate bootable drive (maybe a partition, maybe a usb) for filesystem recovery in Linux. It is not better or easier in Linux than in Windows.

However, there are a lot of different filesystem definitions inside of Linux and there are certain things such as recovery tools or file indexing and journaling tools that are different depending on if you're using different filesystems. "btrfs" - alternatively pronounced "butter fess" and "better filesystem" - is currently a community favorite and is widely supported by disk recovery tools. It has been years since I last checked but I believe ZFS is the fastest in terms of data retrieval and data writing but does not have much if any ability to recover deleted files. ext4 is the workhorse system, not as fast on read and write and not as easy to recover files as btrfs, I think it had some advantages early on but I have forgotten what those were.

>>315929
>notably KaiOS, which is a fork of Linux intended for use on flipphones which are based on telephone MTP protocol filesystems)
damn that's cool.
I have a question that's not about OS but I don't know where to ask so I'll post it here:I use Google Chrome and when I want to search for something about the cyberpunk genre, Google only offers me sites related to the video game Cyberpunk 2077, but I don't want to go to sites about the video game Cyberpunk 2077; I want links that are cyberpunk but aren't cp2077. I tried searching with "-cyberpunk 2077" but it still doesn't work. my question is: if I use chromium or waterfox (or other alternative browser that's not from big companies like google or explorer; maybe tor??), will I have more results and more variety when searching for cyberpunk things or not?

>>315943
Not in that case no. Browsers do have some impact on the functionality of a site but would not change how google's search system works on a fundamental level. Ad blockers for instance should only block ads, not real results.

Even other search engines would probably not do you much good. With every year that passes, fewer and fewer search engines offer advanced tokenizing features, and the first feature to go is always going to be Excludes because they're used to exclude results you don't want, results that some other party is likely paying good money to make you see, and smaller alt search engines are going to be more responsive to financial incentives than bing or google. And inbuilt search systems won't fare any better. Firefox's new governance wants to move towards personalized advertisement, Brave Browser already does as much, Microsoft is building ads into its AI search with more zeal than it is building scientific accuracy or user safety.

Cyberpunk 2077's search optimization is based on its recency, its popularity, its longevity (having resurged in popularity after it got enough dlc to stop having the reputation of "that hopelessly broken piece of shit"), in how much was published about it, and how much mainstream discussion it received as both a controversy and as ultimately a high profile AAA game. It did not simply game the system, and its ranking is not artificial.

Your best bet is to get more specific in a particular direction leading away from 2077 by including more terms, not by trying to exclude terms, since none of the engines want to let users exclude incorrect results anymore.

>>315945
>Cyberpunk 2077's search optimization is based on its recency, its popularity, its longevity
that's the problem, it is too popular and when I search for cyberpunk on a browser, the browser think I'm searching about cp2077 while not. it's annoying

>>314581
simplest way to put it is all computers just use binary code. the OS is a giant calculator and compiler which interprets strings of 1 and 0 and uses the different strings to present a graphical interface so you can interact with it instead of just seeing white noise or 1 or 0. if you had no OS at all you wouldn't be able to do anything but a blank screen and white noise coming out the speakers like raw electricity. even the simplest computers back in the day needed some type of OS to make a graphical interface. the strings are bits, i guess it started at 2 bit computers as in one 1 or one 0.

>>315956
nowadays computers really have two os, the boot os and the main os that you actually use. i assume the oldest first computer of all time had no GUI, just a boot os and was probably like a morse code telegraph or something interpreting 2 bit 1 and 0 strings. just a live wire pretty much. a telegraph all it needed to boot was like an electrical capacitor and electricity. it was on when you plugged it in.

>>315957
i just looked at a diagram of a telegraph, it's essentially a live wire or a simple circuit, the bits come from the telegraph. 1 is open 0 is closed. so wire on and wire off. a computer is just a telegraph over and over at a tiny scale. all computing is just a bunch of circuits shooting pulses of electricity. computers now are just very fast telegraphs at tiny scale.

>>315957
Also now that VM's can run on basically any crappy modern device, you don't have to choose.

I have the option of working completely at home with zero human contact due to doing graphics design, so they gave me a Mac Studio to do that.
The m2 max apple chip is actually powerful enough to run almost any windows app directly through real time x86 translation.
Then if that isn't enough, I still run a Windows 11 instance in VMWare most of the time, because I prefer the GUI of Windows over Apple.

In an ideal world, OS's would all be free, and they would be highly optimized GUI'd versions of Linux with all the drivers you could ever hope for.
But we don't live there sadly. And the average person will never use console commands. They want pressable or clickable icons.

>>315957
>nowadays computers really have two os, the boot os and the main os that you actually use.

wisdom post

wisdom post

can I get a more technical answer on why we can't have one program that can borrow other programs on all the OS? why we need to rewrite it whenever we change OS?

>>316076
I see thank you

>>316075
It requires a lot of processing power which is expensive. Only Apple silicon CPU's (made after 2020) can rapidly translate x86, powerpc or other architecture commands to ARM and developing the Rosetta 2 real time emulator in Mac OS X to do it natively cost billions of dollars and thousands of programmers.

The reason why Windows can't emulate Linux or Mac programs is money. It is a gargantuan project to pull off for pretty minimal gain.

Also, Microsoft already has the upper hand in market share and likely always will. They aren't interested in running competitors apps real time through translation layers.
If someone complains they'll just tell that person to run the program through a virtual machine, not Windows.

>>316077
No problem. Sorry for the double post

>>316080
>double posting
it's ok
well I guess beside making your own OS and writing all the programs possible to fit and make everything work is impossible…or maybe AI will do all the work in the future, who knows…

why game companies don't let their game work with linux by letting people coding the program needed for the game to run on linux? if so, the companies don't need to hire or pay too much money to code their game again on linux?

>>316247
Thee isn't a single incentive, financial or reputational, for a studio to program their game for Linux or even accept any help from anyone willing to port it for free.

This is the topic for me since interfacing with hardware and dealing with operating systems is quite literally my job right now. Without operating systems we would be stuck with hardware that performs a very specific task. OSes allow the flexibility in computer programming that allows us to use out computers to do a fuck ton of different things relatively easily.

>>316075
It is because the way they interact with the hardware is wildly different.

Imagine there are two personal shoppers you can choose from, Pablo and Jason. They both can buy oranges for you from the same store. Their task is exactly the same, but you can only work with Jason because Pablo only knows how to speak spanish. This is similar in to how software can only work in operating systems that it understands.

From a techinical perspective, the complexity lies in teh software stack's architecture. At the fountation, we have the hardware itself. The hardware is constant and unchanging, like our store in the analogy. hwoever to interact with the hardware, we need software drivers, which are essentially translators between the application software and the hardware. The drivers send specific commands to teh hardware, instructing it to execute pre-programmed tasks on its chips. This is where we encournter our first major compatibiltiy issue: drifers are fundamentally different between oeprating system, which creates an immediate roadblock in cross-platform compatibility.

But the complexity extends far beyong the drivers. Above the driver level, there is a chain of operating system specific software components. A software applicatation must traverse through potentally hundreds of different software layers to ulimately use the hardware to accomplish its tasks. Each operating system implements this chain differently, using its own set of protcols, APIs, and system calls. To sucessfuly itneract with the hardware, knowledge of this entire chain for the specific operating system is needed. It is like knowing not just the language, but alsot he exact protocol for howt o contact your shopper, when they are available, what forms need to be filled out, and their preferred method of delivery, all of which will likely be completely different between Pablo's and Jason's systems.

>>316252
ok I got it 90% of what you said. So I hope my question reflect what I understood: Why are there different ways to decrypt hardware with software? let's take an example, I have a hardware that is made to do a task and is only used to do this task (so the only purpose for which the hardware was created is this very task) and nothing else. so the hardware contains components that are programmed to make the hardware work with software that will encode the components of the hardware and will be able to be retranscribed on the OS. why should we have another way to encode the hardware??
is there a chip/component with a program inside the hardware or is the software responsible for that?

>>316263

The hardware itself can only be controlled in one way, but the difference happens with the drivers, since it is software.

function processArray(arrayIn){
turn led1 on
move arrayIn to component memory
execute instruction 1
execute instruction 3
move result into output stream
turn led1 off
}

Anything that wants to use this driver to process arrays with that hardware component will need to know of this driver and its processArray function. Another OS will have its own drivers to do the same thing, but since the drivers were written by someone else the function names will be completely different. A program compiled for an OS that relies on the first drivers and that the corresponding will not be able to work with the drivers on the second OS. Yes, ultimately the same instructions are sent to the hardware but the program will have no idea how to navigate the stack to send those instructions.

The thing is that things dont need to be this way. You can design a OS that gives programs direct access to the hardware. MS-DOS and other early operating systems were like that, but that was found to be a terrible idea for security and stability reasons. I wouldn't be surprised if programs were easily transferable between OSes in the early days because of how simple things were.

>>316266
wait when you write an OS, you're also need to build a system that wouldn't be hacked easly?! Thta's insane because writing an OS is hard ,plus you need to know some defences over hack?!

>>316268
The only requirements you need to follow are the ones laid out by the customer. If security isnt an issue then you can make a super insecure OS. Most OSes in the wild are crazy insecure, but you don't really know about them because they are all on offline embedded devices where the OS only really exists to make it easier for the manufacturer to load programs onto it.

If I had to create my own OS, I would set up an online library with all the software created by others, like that, instead of going on the internet, you would just have to go to the online library, look for a software, install it and finally use it.
my OS will be opensource/libre so everyone can do whatever they want with it is this what open source mean anyway? haha