/wiz/ - Wizardry

>>224279
Fuck no.
I'm the opposite.
I hate the fact that normies are waking up and not having kids for whatever reason, laying flat etc.
As a wizard you need a stable population level of young and eager cattle to support your easy, neet lifestyles.

Without billions of young people supporting the welfare states wizards will be forced into the labor force.
Without them who is going to take all the shitty physical labor jobs while we who are forced to work can land some non-sense office job sitting in some corner all day?

We already see the number of highly skilled professionals FALLING dramatically. Doctors, tradesman etc. all going extinct.
This is because young fucks have lost opportunity or woke up to the fact that it's pointless to slave away when they can just tiktok dance or whatever.
This means you have no access to healthcare cheaply also tradesman IF you can even call one are expensive as fuck.
This matters because as a wizard I assume you are less likely to be able to fix a leak or anything really.

While some wizards are competent, let's be real, we need normies to try harder so we can relax more.

Every normie NEEDS to aspire to breed and acquire status, homes and cars and most important of all DEBT and RESPONSIBILITY.
That debt and responsibility will be shackles to keep them grinding themselves to the bone so we can laze around in a world of plenty.

Any wizard supporting antinatalism should consider this. You won't breed by default so your conscience is clean.
You know why it's important not to perpetuate misery.
The misery of normies is a prerequisite of your ease of life and non of your business though. Keep that in mind.

>what about all the future wizards born that way, they suffer too
Not my fucking business, they will spawn regardless of our intellectual circle jerk about it.
We will be here for them guiding them to be less miserable. It's the most you can do anyways if you care that much.

Antinatalism is fundamentally a view about something that is non of our business.

>>224281
>I hate the fact that normies are waking up and not having kids for whatever reason, laying flat etc.
But don't you think it could have positive effects for everyone, including wizards? Up until now the world has been accommodating to the hard working, breeding normie, while neets could only get scraps if lucky. But with this considerable population of like-minded dropouts, and with modern technologies, we might see neeting become more mainstream, more accessible. I'm a wageslave anyway, and neeting is not an option for me currently, so I see people dropping out as a good thing. It means I might yet get to enjoy things like universal basic income, or at least less work hours in a week. Such a large population of people not interested in the rat race might have the power to push these things through.

Of course, the elites will try to throw us into the meat grinder that is war.

>>224282
Look, to me this sounds like you are mistaking social acceptance for anything tangibly beneficial.
You say you work, as NEETing is out of the question, then you should probably see the effects these normies are having on workplaces.
You have to work more because the cattle is doing the same thing wizards always did.
Quiet quitting and similar trends were tactics employed by those of us who had to wageslave. If everyone does it, you literally can not do it because nobody is there to pick up the slack.

As a wizard who was a longterm NEET (decade) yet forced into work I have figured out how to navigate life in a way to do as little as possible, yet reap the benefits.
You say things like UBI might save you if everyone wakes up, but that will not be the case unfortunately and you see it correctly here:
>Of course, the elites will try to throw us into the meat grinder that is war.
The useless eater narrative has been on the minds of the elite for a long time now. This is quite literally in the making in the EU in my opinion. I'm afraid of it bordering Ukraine even if just barely. History has shown this country to be a place of slaughter for the West and the East.

With AI taking away the easy jobs the world is going to move to the Chinese hyper competitive world of survival, slavery for scraps for a long time before any sort of UBI would (if ever) be considered.
That is not a world suited for a wizard and is accelerated by the normie awakening.

Let me list some tangible effects of the cattle gaining consciousness as I see things:

At work if you put in about 60-80% you will still get by in an office setting, while the normies will pick up the slack so their metrics look good. Why?
Job stability is needed for normies and they also need to "look good" so when the kid is sick and they need a day off they aren't frowned upon as much.
Someone needs to do overtime? Guess what? You can just remain silent or even benevolently let the people with debt and responsibilities take it and they will even be grateful to you.

If you work a job where you have to be on 24 hours in 8 hour rotating shifts then you, like me, might prefer nightshifts.
Guess who doesn't like nightshifts? Normies who have kids and lives. Therefore you get all the nightshifts you want.

All of this is lost, as now your zoomer coworkers are in a competition of doing the absolute least, each waiting for the other to pick up the work.
Nobody wants to do overtime so you are forced to take at least some, you also have competition for easy-yet-inconvenient shifts.

The cattle never used to take so many sick days either, because they cared about optics, office politics and other nonsense. Not to mention sick leave pays much much less, so a family man could never afford it.
Now they take leaves, sick days etc. every other weak leaving you understaffed and having to work double when you are used to working half.

Social security, benefits, gibs, healthcare are all drained due to a multitude of reasons. More normies use it to leech if they can and less young people paying into the system.
As pressure mounts and easy jobs go away your parents might not be able to let you NEET either especially if they lose a pension because the population pyramid gets inverted.
This doesn't affect me currently, but who knows.

As I said, normies no longer work trades and hard jobs that require a lifetime investment because of the broken social contract.
This results on you as a wizard having to struggle even finding an appointment, and then pay insane prices for what used to be easily accessed.


Now in summary, what do we note from this trend? What do you think, would this affect a wizard more?
I believe so.
If you notice a lot of these points I listed (of the top off my head, there are more I'm sure) are countered by one crucial thing we all lack.
Sociability, social nets.

The normie slacker, awoken salted fish, lay flat, herbivore NEET aspirant has no problem navigating a world with less ease of access.
They know tradesmen through connections or abilities learned as a normie hobby like car maintenance.
They can get as much sick leave as they want because they know the doctor so they get a pass even if no sickness is present.
They can get by in the workplace because while they might be worthless sacks of shit they get buddy buddy with the boss or the HR lady and the coworkers so nobody complains if they slack, but they might about you now.
The will get the easy jobs to begin with through connections or by being a pretty face or a smooth talker.
They will get the gibs, the benefits etc. again, because they know a guy or their dad knows a guy who knows a guy while you might have to slave away with a broken spine since benefits are limited.
Of course the boss' favorite guy who they play video games with or something is going to get the best shifts as well.

If you consider a woken up normie vs a wizard, you will note that this difference in social abilities will influence our outcomes greatly now that we have competition.
I stand by what I said. I greatly dislike the current trends and do not support antinatalism for the masses at all.

>>224279
I don't hate children, I don't hate being alive. I dislike feeling alone. Overpopulation is only a problem for racists and concrete jungle residents (the cities) I live next to the woods can't drive, don't get ill. I'm content

>>224281
>As a wizard you need a stable population level of young and eager cattle to support your easy, neet lifestyles.
Welfare it's not a matter of quantity but quality, the most advanced welfare institutions exist in countries that barely reach few millions people (like Norway), while countries with many people don't enable welfare because it's not sustainable. One every five people will be disabled, so you can easily imagine that overpopulated countries like India won't care much for the weak and vulnerable.
>Without billions of young people supporting the welfare states wizards will be forced into the labor force.
Even with disability most wizards would still be poor without inheritance money. Now imagine if you had to split this inheritance with ten siblings because your parents acted like you say and reproduced a lot.
>We already see the number of highly skilled professionals FALLING dramatically. Doctors, tradesman etc. all going extinct.
>This means you have no access to healthcare cheaply also tradesman IF you can even call one are expensive as fuck.
Doctors wouldn't be cheaper just because there are many of them, we should argue for a better public healthcare system, but again overpopulation makes it difficult because young people eventually become older and sick.
>The misery of normies is a prerequisite of your ease of life and non of your business though. Keep that in mind.
I don't see a connection between these two things, if normies are miserable they oppress wizards even more.
>Antinatalism is fundamentally a view about something that is non of our business.
I exist because my parents reproduced so it's my business, we can't force people to stop reproducing but we should warn them about the consequence of their actions.

>>224288
Antinatalism is not about hating children, rather we love children more than breeders since we prevent any harm by not having them. Overpopulation is a problem for everyone, it makes life intollerable.

>>224288
>Overpopulation is only a problem for racists and concrete jungle residents
Your tolerance is s gin of weakness, and it will be exploited. You will pay the price of niggers.

>>224289
I thought a bit about even bothering with a response as a lot of your points feel like little more than "gotcha huhuhu ackshually owned".

A wizard is not a crab in my view let's just put that out there and go a bit beyond what the base definition of "male 30+ virgin" okay?
Imagine being one that has fully embraced his lot and is trying to make the most of it.
My arguments stem from such a standpoint.

First, a wizard as opposed to a crab is a person that comes to be in an age of relative plenty, or at least he can find greater comfort in one.
I do not care about third world shiters, you can go cleanse them if you wish.
The rajneesh can't NEET because jamal is being eaten by vultures in Africa is not something to even bother with here.

Now after letting out my knee jerk reaction, I apologize for being an ass and I will try to engage with your points.
I greatly dislike this point by point response style instead of contributing ones own thoughts completely, please understand.

Population matters because in nations where welfare is available, or in which the hard labor jobs are filled by others, normies that have a reason to slave away pic rel is what supports our kind.
You need a large enough productive workforce to support the less productive, or the flat out dependents.
Again I feel like there is a fundamental misunderstanding between what I advocate for and what is being nitpicked here with the inheritance part.
I'm not advocating for your parents to breed harder as it a completely mute point here, you are already set.
I'm advocating for the normie class to produce more, which is a necessity to keep the current wizard population comfortable.

You are correct, more siblings means less ability to leech from parents, but it also comes with the perks of a reasonable social net.
In developed countries if your parents can afford that many kids, there is either a welfare state there, or they are wealthy enough.
I will keep disregarding third world crap because, while you can argue wizards can exist there and they sure are miserable, I'm not going to base my entire worldview around the least fortunate. I'm selfish like that.

You need the population to be closer to a pyramid, less dependents, higher workforce.
If you are the black sheep of a 9 child family, the other 8 are working and supporting the nation, hopefully with enough output that the state keeps you fed.

Poverty to me is not a huge issue, and I believe wizards can still thrive while poor as long as our needs are met. Poverty in a developed nation is still riches for the average. Again, sure Rajneesh suffers. I'm sorry bro. I know there is a few Indians here, doesn't change the equation for us.

Doctors being expensive is a supply issue today. There is no reason for normies to take these jobs due to the "broken social contract" and general apathy.
We need them breeding, we need them burdened with responsibilities that they joyfully carry so we can have more of these high skill people serving out there.
I think I was clear about this in my prior posts.

You can resent your parents for producing you, but that is no reason to advocate against your best interest, which is normies breeding more.
I really wish I was eloquent enough to provide a better understanding on this, but honestly it's pure math and should be obvious.
You can only have so many dependents for each tax cattle…

I don't know what was difficult to grasp here about normies needing to suffer so you can relax.
An age of plenty is built on their backs.

They oppress wizards more?
Are we going back to the "I wish being a wizard was socially acceptable" thing again?
I already assumed someone was trying to make this point, but social acceptance is of no relevance to me at least.
I'll refrain from generalizing then if that makes you feel better about it.


TL:DR;
My idea of viewing antinatalism through the lens of a wizard is not about ethics, but practical implications.
Normies as is already seem to have given up, if anything their breeding should be encouraged. Not because of future generations of wizards, but because of current ones. Me and you.
Less cattle means less resources to go around for those who wish to leech from them.
Less cattle means key positions go unfilled that are required for daily comfort, making such comfort out of reach for the average "poor" wizard.
You can argue ethics and feelings all you want and I agree.
You will be correct.
So? I'm not going to breed, if others don't it will affect me and you negatively. I provided the way in which this will and is already the case previously.

One thing I agree with you on is the point of it not being a matter of population, but general wealth, output. Sure, but the two things correlate because the people with the high output still need to be replaced once they perish or stop producing.
The reason these people produced so much to begin with was what? Status, wealth, reproduction, responsibilities.
A single normie doesn't have the burdens that demand a high output. Without a high output there is less to go around.

>>224296
Antinatalism is not eugenics, third worlders are still humans by all standards even if they act like subhumans.
They have consciousness just like us, it's illogical to think otherwise, they have the capability of formulating well-written thoughts from a biological brain and feel emotions, pain and suffering. That being said, I would also like a white-only world.

Beside this initial paragraph, I have split your text on two parts and I will not quote it like you asked I will give you my own thoughts.

Now I will give you a reply on labour:
I will start discussing your chart, which in my opinion is not directly proportional to production because we have automation nowadays, the work of 1000 normies can be replaced by one efficient industrial machine, so it's not realistic to say that we need a large workforce to feed everyone we just need the right technology and a bunch of well-trained individuals. As demonstration of what I'm saying 50% of the global workforce is employed in services(third sector) meaning is not really useful, way too many people work useless jobs, I would gladly give an universal basic income to them rather than stupid jobs. Still, unlike you I consider poverty a huge problem, I am fully aware that surviving with a basic income like disability is extremely difficult especially if you need to face issues like climate change, hot and cold weather is not a joke you can easily get sick.

And this is my reply on population:
My best interest is to have as less normies as possible, I literally can't leave the house without interacting with them, the traffic, the crowd at the park, the queue at the market, the shared hospital beds, squeezed public transport, it's all toxic. I wish the world would return to the COVID-19 pandemic when all the streets and markets were empty and I could breathe fresh air. This is my sweet dream, voluntary extinction. It goes beyond ethics you can consider my point of view strictly utilitarianism, life becomes better if it stops reproducing itself.

Lastly, society may not recognize it but antinatalism would force late-stage capitalism to change the script, we're living in an era where human rights are being reduced or cut altogether and it affects everyone.

>>224316
Just to clarify I did not intend to conflate eugenics and antinatalism there.
I don't think arguing based on third world people is productive, I always prefer to view these issues through the lens of an average wizard.
As I said, I do believe wizard status is mostly attained in developed countries, not India/Africa which at most breeds crabs.
This is just a personal opinion, nothing to do with the real definition of a wizard, I do not plan to change this view either.

Back on topic.
Machines aren't taxed at the rate people are, even if you tax the output, the consumption part of the tax equation falls flat.
You are right, we don't need as many people in an ideal world.

Keep in mind that reality disproves you. Especially your last point. We are already in a worldwide "antinatalist" society. Birth rates are below replacement all across the developed world.
Yet capitalism is chugging along worse than ever, and there are plenty of normies shitting up every place possible.
Even during covid, who were the worst of our oppressors? Even if they are fewer in number it won't matter much in the grand scheme of things.
I'd still argue it's easier to avoid abject poverty as well in a world with plenty of lemmings to go around.

So both of us view our standpoint as utilitarian…
I don't think I wish to reiterate my points again. I fully believe our current reality supports my claims.
It (increase in normie cattle, and returning to the old "social contract" so they can slave away) is not a direct solution to every societal issue you mention I admit.
It would in my view still alleviate most issues a wizard faces today. Keep in mind the crowding and lack of professional support is as much a supply issue as it is a demand issue.
I even pointed out healthcare workers and actual professionals decreasing as a result of normies checking out of society en masse.

So to conclude I see your point, I even agree with them to an extent. We just don't share the same perspective, different approach I guess.
Or maybe I'm just misunderstanding you. Fine either way I contributed enough.

>>224319
The world population is constantly growing, even if white people are having less children the global population is always increasing (and migrating). There have never been so many animals being slaughtered. Also, people live longer lives in developed countries.

I am not particularly interested in changing your opinion but our world is far from being "antinatalist". Pro-life religions still thrive, most leaders pretend to care about birth rate and want to increase it, dictatorships prohibit any discussion of the topic. If we didn't have a stagnant economy I am sure that even white people would reproduce more.

>>224319
>We are already in a worldwide "antinatalist" society. Birth rates are below replacement all across the developed world.
Fully contradicting yourself one sentence later is impressive. If your beloved white people's birthrates are stagnant or dropping, they will be replaced by people from the third world. Anon before me said as much.

>>224327
Again, I agree, but that was never my point.
The world population is irrelevant to me as a whole. It is useful for arguing purely the philosophy, but not for my or a wizards circumstances specifically.
The migrants replacing the western population currently do not contribute in the way I described, therefore they make our lives significantly harder even if only by proxy.
Pro-life religions thrive on the surface. Such third worlders inserted into Europe soon follow similar trajectories as a whole.
I'm not sure it's purely the economy that limits the western cattles breeding proclivities.
The broken "social contract" is basically parroted by everyone now.
I wish we had some way to motivate normies to go back to the rat race to chase family, wealth, social approval and high status professions so we had more people to serve us overall.
We need them to pull their weight, our weight and then some for comfort.

>>224328
As I might have mentioned I wish I was eloquent enough to properly describe the difference in thought. I'm clearly not.
>beloved white people
I'm sorry, I think I was too dismissive and perhaps overly hostile in the way I described the "others".
I really do not give a shit about whites or blacks in general aside from what and how their presence affects me.
If you are a black/indian wizard, I pray that you somehow reach a western country and manage to leech as much as possible.
That's the best I can wish for our kinsmen, be it white, black or some shade of brown.

If you pay attention, some channels of blacks/browns are already complaining about their western countries decline and them "escaping London" for example.
That is a good analogy to what I'm trying to get at here.
We need a sufficient stock of cattle that is 100% bought into the society meme so they can support a number of leeches.

Now to the practical side of things. Even the other anon mentioned that normies wont let you NEET it up in the third world if I recall correctly.
This is the only reason why I view migration as bad. Whatever color you are, you benefit from the white westerners producing and reproducing.
Since these "beloved whites" are already in decline, if you support the antinatalism philosophy and push it to them, you are just fucking yourself over even more.

TL:DR; I wanna be a NEET leech and to be one I need prime cattle to suckle onto. If there are too many leeches or the cattle too few, I'll have to struggle harder.
If I can't be a NEET leech, then I want to be the most lazy beast of burden I can be, for that I need prime cattle to pull the carts in my stead as I slack…
Hope this clears it up.

Apologies for the hostility. It was not warranted.

Antinatalism is another kike psyop. If you support this shit you must be an anti-white shitskin.

>>224332
Other wizards have given valid reasons to support the philosophy.
Tribal allegiances like that do no good for a wizard.
If you want to keep to your own, your own is not a fellow white normie and you will likely find more common ground with a half-orc wizard than them.

>>224333
>You have no culture. You relate more to brown third-world crabs than you relate to your fellow White people, because you and the crab are virgins.
That's not going to work here.

>>224335
Consider going back. Site was restored a while ago.

>>224337
/pol/ shit needs to be moderated.
What next? Are you so invested into your race and "culture" that you will preach about wizards needing to self improoove so they can contribute to the prosperity and continuation of it?
Fuck off.

>>224338
Holy shit that's a skinny little wrist. No wonder you're acting like a female.

>>224342
Quite fat actually. Make sure to carry your burdens wagie.

I don't want humanity to go extinct, just like I don't want any other animal species to disappear completely. The world would be much more boring without humanity in it. Even if on a personal level I dislike my fellow humans, on a collective level I think humanity is interesting.

I don't care about nonsense like reducing suffering in general, I care about reducing my own suffering only. I also don't care about what is morally right or wrong. So I think antinatalism is just another pretentious feel-good moralist philosophy, in fact it is moralizing and humanism taken to its extreme conclusion.

>>224343
You're obese?

There isn't really much of a debate.
It's a non-falsifiable subjective morality argument that can be in the same breath refuted by it's own logic.

I also find it funny that in my irl experence the only person I have ever known to put forth a antinatalist argument was a boomer who already had 5 children but just though later generations shouldn't breed due to strain on the planet and the increase of net suffering in the world. Or to put another way
>I already got mine so let the world die with me as I die
Very boomer mentality.

>>224348
>I don't care about nonsense like reducing suffering in general, I care about reducing my own suffering only. I also don't care about what is morally right or wrong.
You sound like a psycho, the rulers of the earth think like you and they make the world a living hell.

>>224361
The commonly quoted figure of 1% of the population being psychopaths is a blatant lie.

At least 80-90% of people are narcissistic self-serving psychopatic monsters, many of whom would sell their own grandmother for a tiny bit of profit if they couldn't get caught.

If you gave 5 million random people chosen around the world a button that instantly kills you and they receive 500 dollars with zero repercussions, even more than 95% would press it.

>>224363
>At least 80-90% of people are narcissistic self-serving psychopatic monsters
I do agree with you and this is yet another reason to avoid reproduction.

We don't need that philosophy, we're not going to have kids ever because we're not touching succubi to start with, only someone who considers having kids ever, or its within the possibilities for him should concern himself with A.N.

>>224381
Some enjoy being morally validated for doing nothing/doing what they already were going to do anyway.

It's partially why the whole Gnosticism meme gained a foothold.

>>224382
>Gnosticism meme
Why is it a meme? There is strong evidence that the creator(s) of this world are evil.

My belief as a wizard is that we should push for higher morality instead of praising evilness.

>>224348
Good take.

>>224361
You sound like a succ.

>>224383
Have you actually looked into real gnositicim in actual detail.
It's really really really retarded, absurdly complicated, and actually promotes worship of a female.

The meme form of it spoke of here is a intentionally comically simplified version that only has a few words in common with actual gnositism and isn't even philosophically coherent (again intentionally so).
It quite literally is just a joke/meme. It is impossible to actually take it seriously because there is nothing there to take seriously.

>>224386
Everything based on Judaism is pure nonsense no non-jew should ever care for.

>>224361
I'm just honest, you should try it sometimes too. Everyone is mainly concerned about himself but people rarely ever admit this. I wonder what you antinatalist kids ever did to reduce suffering besides campaigning for antinatalism on a site where the userbase doesn't reproduce anyway? Do you actually go out and reduce the suffering you claim to be so concerned about? I doubt it. It's just an easy way for people who are living the virgin life anyway to feel superior about themselves via sentimental moralizing.

>>224363
You are no different either and you know it too deep down. Maybe not for 500 dollars but for something you crave you would definitely press that button. That's why psychopath is just a useless word that has as much value as the word evil, that is zero.

>>224383
Most scholars don't even agree on what is gnosticism. It's just a catch-them-all term for any obscure sect of religion that existed and posited some secret knowledge as the way to salvation. There are extremely different lines of thought between the various sects of gnosticism.

>>224390
Gnosticism is actually anti-semitic in many of its variations. It is not only based on Judaism but pagan traditions too.

>>224395
Don't want to derail further, but to me these "anti-semitic" but based on Judaism religions, philosophies, cults are absolutely insane.
All are still fueling the servitor spoken into existence by the torah of the jews.
Anti-semitic Christians are the biggest cucks out there.

>>224395
>I wonder what you antinatalist kids ever did to reduce suffering
I stopped eating meat and I spread antinatalist awareness on social networks, I can't do much more I'm a NEET not a doctor

>>224404
So what do you hope to accomplish by this? Not eating meat is a normalfag meme only, oh wow you don't eat the meat of animals that are already dead, you will surely make some big change with this behavior…Same about spreading antinatalist awareness, you just go around virtue signaling how morally superior you are.

Like I thought, you don't do anything to actually reduce the suffering you claim to be worked up about. So your whole logic is worthless because you don't live what you preach. Classic issue with moralfags.

>>224415
>Not eating meat is a normalfag meme only, oh wow you don't eat the meat of animals that are already dead, you will surely make some big change with this behavior
Disclaimer: I eat meat and animal products every day.
Why do people even bother replying when they are this retarded? Especially when trying to "own" someone?

The meat industry operates on supply and demand like everything else. One guy, the wizard above not eating meat reduces the demand for that industry and increases the demand for alternatives which are claimed to be "cruelty free" or simply not use animal products at all.
Don't even reply with muh "it's insignificant". The outcome of the effort doesn't influence it's validity in this case. Move the goalpost more so you can huff your own farts and get some perceived wins.

Here is my moralfag take then: People should be forced to take an IQ test and if they score below 100 those above should be allowed to hunt them for sport.
Those under 120 should be reduced to slavery.
There you have it.
Make sure to paint the target on your back retardbro.

>>224415
>Not eating meat is a normalfag meme only
Normalfags eat plenty of meat, they enjoy things like McDonalds and are commonly overweight.
>Same about spreading antinatalist awareness, you just go around virtue signaling how morally superior you are.
Wizards ARE morally superior to normalfags because we don't impose life on anyone else.

I don't understand why you want us to live an immoral, careless, life…unless you feel attacked because you want to engage in bad behaviours and then justify it.

>>224423
A large Big Mac meal has practically no protein in it. The two tiny patties inside 3 giant buns have 20g of protein.

The fries, buns and sugary coke have 250+ grams of empty nutritionally void carbs.

>>224426
>Big Mac meal has practically no protein
>Has 25g of protein

In what world is 25 grams of protein "practically none"?
That is half of the daily recommended minimal in a single menu item.

>>224437
You can get all this protein from a healthier source that doesn't clog your arteries.

>>224438
That has literally zero to do with the point ether I made nor what you said that I was critical of.

>>224437
An adult man who doesn't consume at least 1 gram of protein per kg of bodyweight daily is going to look like a frail retard. 2 grams if actually trying to look human.

>>224417
It's insignificant and you know it too. You aren't making any difference with this. If you really cared about helping animals then you would volunteer at animal shelters or something similar. But of course you don't care about easing the suffering of animals either, you just want an easy way to feel morally superior over others, just like in the case of antinatalism. So many lazy, weak, incompetent and impotent people run to morality to feel some kind of comfort. I also love how butthurt you got, really proves that I hit the nail on the head.

>>224423
Vegetarianism and veganism are extremely mainstream things in the developed countries. It has always been some retarded middle class virtue signaling. It's an easy way to feel good about yourself, same as posting #blacklivesmatter or crying about all those starving african/palestinian children.

>Wizards ARE morally superior to normalfags because we don't impose life on anyone else.
This argument would only hold some merit if you had to actively refuse and chase away from yourself succubi who wanted to procreate with you. I very much doubt this is the case with you or most of the antinatalist posters here.

>I don't understand why you want us to live an immoral, careless, life…unless you feel attacked because you want to engage in bad behaviours and then justify it.
You moralfags are the only ones trying to justify yourselves here and it's funny you accuse me of this. I'm just disgusted with the pretentious and fake attitude of the humanist and moralizing people in general. Only retards think they are the good guys and everyone else is some morally corrupt degenerate or whatever. You only use morality to cover your own weakness and laziness and to have an easy way to feel good about yourself while doing nothing.

>>224444
Braindead faggot. Not worth further engagement.

>>224445
>I have no argument so I will just call you a faggot hehe
Mature behavior.

>>224444
If you don't eat meat you're not actively supporting torture, I am not sure if you understand this or you simply don't care. I don't think you would enjoy being tortured.

>>224289
Everything you say is true, and the guy who opposes you is probably a rich NEET who leeches off working normies through investments or something. His wealth blinds him and he can't even consider the perspective of the poor. If there were less people, there would be more goods per person, so life would be better for everyone including a large number of virgin men. On the other hand, life would be less comfortable for rich, selfish parasites. That's the difference between your and his point of view.

>>224461
I've always hated rich wizard because hierarchically, they are at the top of society. No matter how much they try to "fit in" they have NOTHING in common with wageslaves or disability/unemployment wizards.

I just wish they didn't post because I legitimately get my feathers rustled.

>>224462
How very feminine of you.

>>224463
Someone who gets several times my annual salary in dividends just by sitting on their ass all day has lost touch with reality and has nothing in common with me, virgin or not.

>>224462
same
I wouldn't be surprised if they make up weird schizo beliefs in which they are somehow special and deserve the wealth which they didn't really earn
I mean some kind of solipsism

When a worker makes a mistake, his boss does not whip him because there are more efficient ways of correcting and preventing mistakes than pain. But when life causes you pain for making a miatake, that's supposed to be good?

When someone does something to a retard that he does not like, the retard reacts with violence, he causes pain. His reaction is called retarded and stupid, but when life causes you pain, it's supposed to be purposeful?

That's why life is not a miracle, it's inefficient, retarded and stupid.

>>224477
>His reaction is called retarded and stupid, but when life causes you pain, it's supposed to be purposeful?

on top of the pain the world has to offer innately, you can add more pain.
if you identify with concern over being called retarded and stupid, you add more pain to what was already there.

incidentally, when you drop self concern like that, you also feel no need to react to anything in the world. you'll be free.

>>224461
Overpopulation is a racist dog whistle. You don't need riches and consumables to lead a fulfilling life.

>>224484
>Overpopulation is a racist dog whistle.
Haha. No.

>>224484
Delusional poster

>>224484
I don't care about riches I just hate crowded spaces.

>>224461
> If there were less people, there would be more goods per person
yeah and who is going to produce said goods? who is going to provide you with security?
66% of the US male population isn't fit for military service. but that is okay since the US have a population of 330 of which about half are men.
which means you still have a pool of around 55 million fit men to conscript from. this is the benefit of having a large population. if Switzerland had a obesity rate similar to the US it would be far more devastating for them. Due to their lower population. this also means less people suitable for work, god forbid anyone fit get injured or die, now you have a hard time to find replacements. think also about the less number of smart people as well. if IQ deviation is something to go by assuming the average IQ is 100.
If you have a population of 100, you should have around 15 individual capable of becoming doctors and engineers, 150 if your population is 1000, 150,000 for 1 million. A large group of high IQ people can accomplish more than a small group.

You need a large population in order to have sufficient producers to produce said goods! ofc not everyone can live in luxury. It will be a privileged reserved mostly for the elite.
with less impoverished people to exploit for cheap labor or high IQ nerds to do the paperwork in their cubes, isn't going to increase your material wealth.

in short, you need a large number of cogs to be sure the machine can always run at max efficiency. yes they consume more, but you forget that they are also capable of producing more.

>>224488
I'm one of the poor people exploited for cheap labor. We get exploited simply because there is many of us, so replacements are easy to find, actually we queue up for shit jobs that barely pay enough for survival. We don't get to dictate the rules of employment. Most of those jobs don't satisfy any needs, but wants of people richer than us. But the costs of living are so inflated that we have no choice but to serve the rich. If there were less of us poor fucks, our work would be more valued.

Are you rich? You sound rich and privileged. How did you become rich?

>>224489
>our work would be more valued.
True but will it be enough to increase your standards of living?
Wages also rise during the black plague. But everyone still experience a net loss regarding material wealth.
Mainly due to decrease of total production and inflation.

I think this makes sense, specially these days, the system we live in is entirely satanic and most people don't have purpose in life.

The pre birth state is what i perceive god to be. Even God is beneath it. It's the unknown God, the god you can never know. Oblivion. How i can not be an antinatalist? I feel honored the Great Will send me on this path, to know i have not procreated is godlike. But i have no illusions that we have a saying in it. All of us play the script that is written.

>>224489
If you really truly wanted change you'd have taken up arms and killed a few politicians. But no you whine about how there are too many people in the world and that you aren't special because of them. The shit jobs will always be there, there will always be unmotivated people. Peasants didn't suddenly become knights after serfdom was removed

There are ways to stop the growing population, you can donate to russia because they're fixing the overpopulation in the Ukraine. Or is that wrong because they're not on the other side of the world?

>our work would be more valued
It sounds like you have validation problems. No one to show off to

>>224520
>you can donate to russia because they're fixing the overpopulation in the Ukraine. Or is that wrong because they're not on the other side of the world?
That's wrong because Ukrainians are White for the most part. The overpopulation issue can be solved by killing only the black and brown humans.
>It sounds like you have validation problems
You're misinterpreting posts on purpose to make them easier to reply to. Obviously by more valued he means that he would receive fairer payment and treatment for his work. And even if that's not the case, then yeah you fucking psycho, being appreciated by others and being recognized for our work is good enough reason on its own to wish for the expulsion of niggers from the countries our ancestors built for us.

What imageboard did you save that jpg from? That timecode is pretty recent.

>>224486
I see a bunch of men who are smiling. Sure it's not safe but it's still a thrill ride. It's probably the same feeling one got as a child standing inside a moving bus
Maybe you should take a leaf out of their book. Thanks to that image next time I'm off work, I'm going to climb a small but steep mountain. A new thrill

>>224522
So you're admitting the world isn't actually overpopulated and you just dislike brown people?
This is what >>224484 means by racist dog whistle.

Who am I to say that other people shouldn't live when I am the one who is struggling

>>224524
The world IS overpopulated, and retroactively antinatlising all 6 billion sub-yellows would drastically improve Earth for everyone else.

>>224523
Here's a leaf of that book.
https://asiatimes.com/2024/11/blood-on-the-tracks-of-indias-railways/

1000000 people annually fall off those trains and die a painful death. There are cities in Europe which don't even have a population that large.

>>224533
inb4 it is their purpose to get mangled on those tracks

>>224533
But why do you care if they die if you don't want them to live in the first place? Your life would not improve by taking away the lives of people on the other side of the world.

>>224535
And to top it off, they are dying, yet they're still whining about the Indians rent free

>>224536
I didn't say I want anyone to die. My only point was saying the planet is not overpopulated is delusional. The entirety of the Roman Empire spanning one and a half continents had around 40 million inhabitants.

That's around the amount of people who live in Delhi in a 500 square mile area. Which is roughly the size of Hong Kong. There are TOO MANY PEOPLE.

The only solution to antinatalism the same as the one for nihilism, and it's to kill yourself. Antinatalism is an abhorrent ideology based on systematic murder. They keep going on about reducing the future population, yet complain about the now, which leads to violent attacks. A wizard is a wizard, no matter where he lives or is born

We should start with the entirety of america and then work our way west

>>224538
>Antinatalism is an abhorrent ideology based on systematic murder
Antinatalism is not pro-mortalism, we want to prevent new life from being born we don't kill anyone. On the other hand, breeders systematically kill children and animals directly and indirectly, they torture their offspring with poverty, diseases, slavery, etc…

>>224521
> more valued he means that he would receive fairer payment and treatment for his work
Too bad it will be undeserved. Bet if he was the only doctor in a village he could be a bad one, behave like a swine and get away with it.
Meanwhile if he worked in the city and had to compete with tens of thousands of other doctors, he better be humble and good if he wants any clients.

I agree people should have a livable wage. but these people who bitch about fairer pay, think they are owe a fortune for mopping some floors.
YOU are a manual laborer, your wage is suppose to cover your rent, bills, groceries and a few luxuries. Not allowing you to live like a noble with a personal maid and cook!

>>224540
Having children is not 'murdering children' by virtue of those kids inevitably expiring. That's like saying that building a house is also the same as being someone who destroys peoples' houses because that house will inevitably fall.

>>224542
If you have children you KNOW that they will be harmed one day or another, so yeah you deliberately choose to torture life. Houses don't have consciousness.

>>224543
>that they will be harmed one day or another
So? Pain and struggle is just one facet of life. Most people will acknowledge this and not care enough to wish to have never been born when the encounter hardship, or are reminded of the inevitability of their demise.

This is why you antinatalist retards are laughed at. YOU start crying and shitting yourself at the slightest inconvenience, but you can't understand that you're a nutcase in the extreme minority, so you think any time anyone else has a hiccup in life they also experience existential dread (and don't forget: if they don't, they're only COPING or LARPING as someone who doesn't). Go back to /dep/.

>>224544
You only prove that the majority of people are evil narcisists. Nobody asked you before being born if you wanted to experience the hardships of life (be it cancer or hiccup), it seems hard for you to understand this simple concept. Imposition IS torture.

>>224544
Why don't you reproduce if you're so pro-life?

>>224545
Nobody needed my permission to bring me in to this world, and I don't need anyone's permission to leave it. Transactions between two consenting parties is a very new societal construct and to regard it is the moral baseline is sickeningly modern.
>>224546
because I get enjoyment out of reading manga, watching My Little Pony, playing video games, and listening to thrash metal. Having children and/or a wife would take me away from those things. It's a simple case of choosing two paths and seeing that one is more fun to walk on than the other.

>>224547
So you chose not to have children.
You act according to antinatalism, but you speak against it
wut?

>>224548
I chose not to have children because I want to watch anime. "Antinatalists" like these faggots pretend they CAN have children (they're all uggo goblin crabs) but chose not to and say that everyone else should chose not to because "The children didn't CONSENT to being born. They will SUFFER in life. They will DIE. It's not FAIR to put anyone through this hell world and having kids is literally MURDER". It's Hindu/Buddhist nonsense in which life is treated as an objective bad, and if you can't have fun 100% of the time then it is an injustice so you might as well LDAR.
>You act according to antinatalism, but you speak against it
wut?
I don't speak against not reproducing. I speak against the kind if antinatissm I described up there, in which the arguments against children are based in the delusion that life is awful. I'm seriously against the subhumans on this planet reproducing because the planet is past its capacity for such life, and these third-world hellspawn demon children will inflict pain upon every other living thing. I'm very pro-natal for people of my own stock to have children if they believe it will fulfill them in life. It's like, I own guns because I like to target shoot and hunt. Niggers have stolen guns so they can kill and rob Americans. It doesn't mean I'm "acting in accordance with niggers robbing people at gunpoint" because I own guns, while speaking against it hypocritically. You can enjoy cake while disliking when it is thrown in your face.

Are you Eastern European? Filipino? You're not too receptive to these abstracts I've laid out in a way common of those ethnicities.

>>224549
Life is objectively awful, the amount of pain you can experience is tremendous. But even if it was neutral, meaning you won't receive any pain, you still force consciousness into a body and that's immoral because it is imposition, being born is like being thrown into a prison.

>>224550
>Life is objectively awful
No it's not you crybaby.
>life = prison
You're free to stop living anytime, Buddha boy.

>>224551
People are not free to leave, suicide is hard, stop being an asshole.

>>224553
Suicide is easy, and obviously life isn't as awful as you're making it out to be if you're still clinging to it. I'm not the asshole here. The dweebs trying to spread their brand of despair and bring guys down with all of this talk about life being objectively bad are the assholes.

You obviously have some resentment towards your parents, the people in your life, and anyone who is happy with life in any way. Keep that to your depression echo chambers. Not every thread needs to become the half-ruled diary of some nihilistic teenager.

>>224551
Yes life is awful you moron.
It may be a little better for you personally, but there are countless living beings who go through torture all the time. This planet should be blown to pieces, all life should be erased.

But yeah, let's pretend other beings aren't conscious or something, you fucking solipsistic idiot.

>>224555
No life isn't awful you faggot.
It may be a little inconvenient for you personally, but there are countless living beings who experience joy all the time. This planet should be protected, all anti-life manbabies should be spanked.

But yeah, let's laugh at those who insist life is objectively torture while continuing to live, you underage wrist-cutting fatty tattie.

>>224556
if you take the total sum of suffering of all beings, and the joy of all beings, the ratio of suffering to joy is near infinite
only incredibly lucky individuals enjoy life, and want to perpetuate it at the expense of others

>>224557
I don't take the sum of anything and compare it to anything else, because instead of looking at numbers and videos of animals eating other animals to justify to myself that life is objectively shit as a scapegoat for my own decisions making my life shit, I do things that make me happy. This is because I am not 19 years old and gay like you.

You're perpetuating suffering at this expense of this website by acting like such a fragile little boy. It's at the expense of all of us here, so please leave.

>>224558 🙈

you're defending life with all of its suffering, I hope you get what you defend

>>224559
You're lambasting life with all of its joy, I know you will never be a real succubus

>>224554
>Suicide is easy, and obviously life isn't as awful as you're making it out to be if you're still clinging to it.
If suicide is easy then why jails and hospitals are full? Should be easy for suffering people to overcome the survival instinct according to you.

>>224556
>but there are countless living beings who experience joy all the time
Not even billionaires experience joy all the time. Like he said >>224557 the amount of suffering on earth is near infinite if you sum it all.


>>224558
>because instead of looking at numbers and videos of animals eating other animals to justify to myself that life is objectively shit as a scapegoat for my own decisions making my life shit, I do things that make me happy
You're mentally incapacitated if you can't comprehend how privileged you are to spend time playing videogames. Ignoring others suffering doesn't make it disappear, it just makes you unprepared for when it will be your turn.

Not worth further discussion with you, you're living in a bubble.

>>224561
>If suicide is easy then why jails and hospitals are full? Should be easy for suffering people to overcome the survival instinct according to you.
Because people in jail and jail in hospitals will eventually be released to enjoy life again. Where do you get this idea that anyone sick or imprisoned wants to die?
>Not even billionaires experience joy all the time
Not ALL the time like 24/7 you ESL idiot. If a man who is happy, healthy, and fulfilled stubs his toe, he will feel pain and regret his decisions leading up to him hitting his toe. In this moment he's not joyful, but when the pain subsides he will once again be happy.
>Ignoring others suffering
Nobody is doing this here. Suffering exists in all areas of life, just as joy does. Those who can't handle their suffering should either escape it by making their lives better, endure it until some joy comes his way, or kill himself. Those are the only options. Whining about how you want to kill yourself but for some reason you can't (because you don't really want to) isn't an option, it's a joke. You're ignoring the objective reality that there is happiness in life to be felt by all, and are painting the world as some black hole of fire and lightning because of it.

You're an edgy teenager ESL who broke out of your containment board.