/dep/ - Depression

>>306970
I've read lots into psych stuff this is a fun lecture
https://youtu.be/Af5RSk6Bx-Y

The same thing actually applies for medicine in generally to a degree tbh.

If you look into stuff on your own there is some value to be gotten from it, if you understand what psychiatric disorders are. (Loose collections of symptoms categorized so they can do research on what treatments help them)
No psych drugs are even expected to actually fix anything, they simply lower the metrics in the symptoms.

There are some therapeutic techniques that do have very good improvement rates for certain things in terms of modern psychology, you have to look them up for what specific things you might be diagnosed with though (don't trust it just because a psych told you it, figure it out on your own, ai is helpful.)

Apart from that I greatly prefer jungian depth psychology stuff but hard to find anyone for that probably have to do it on your own.

One of the key things I'm annoyed is never talked about is the idea of transference. It's a per-requisite for most psychological stuff to work in terms of therapy. Depth psychologists talked about it more explicitly, but modern ones talk about it but just more academically.

Basically the precondition for therapy to work is seeing yourself as inferior to the therapist and basically inflating the idea of the therapist and even divinizing them to a degree, this is what lets the therapeutic relationship function and if you aren't willing to do that it will not.
No one ever told me this but I would not have bothered with trying it if I did. In depth psychology they talk about it in terms of as a beginning stage, but one that has to be ended. (Jung specifically says at a certain point more analysis/therapy is harmful). Modern ones don't have that and instead keep people in this perpetual infantile state so they can drain them of money.

Honestly you are better of for the most part trying to write down as best you can your life story, all your psychiatric issues and ask an AI to analyze it, provide differential diagnosis of what it could be. Then look into how to distinguish between those, then when you fPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>307859
>they simply lower the metrics in the symptoms
I doubt this, studies often find no or negligable improvement rate in symptoms, most famously certain commonly used antidepressants actually increase suicide rates.

Rest of your post reads like "yeah it's all bullshit but there are a few nuggets here and there".

Your final advice is to diagnose and determine treatment yourself (with AI) which is specifically the role of the doctor or therapist and then seek help from the people who specifically fail to do this.

There is no way you can reasonably be expected to do all this to get help from the psych system, best to avoid it alltogether.

>>307932
The aim of the treatments is lowering particular metrics, those metrics may not include suicide rates. For things like depression in order to market it as a anti-depression drug you would find some "Depression" metric there are a ton of tests you can take, then they test you before and after treatment and if the metric is lower it "worked". It's not all metrics, it's literally just determining one specific measure like a depression inventor like pic rel.

The purpose of a shrink is not a singular thing. If you are confident to a degree in what your symptoms are associated with there are treatements that don't require a psych (meditation/exercise, etc) and ones that do. Group therapy, specific forms of one on one therapy (schema therapy, cbt) guided exposure stuff, etc.

It is better not to see shrinks as like people with authority or responsibility, but more as tools.
Doing your own exposure therapy for example is hard to do, having a person who is aware of how it works to guide you through it is helpful. If you are aware for your condition certain group therapy procedures results in good outcomes, you can find one in your city to do that.

Doctors should be viewed as tools to be used in treatments, not as competent authorities on their own. If you view them that way they are fine, you just can't offload your own responsibility on to them. If you want to do that as I said I'd suggest depth psychology as they actually deal with that transference concept more directly.

>>307969
This isn't at all how doctors and shinks present themselves and market their treatments. If you visit a shrink or mental hospital you are expected to be diagnosed by someone within the system. If you "diagnose yourself" and for example determine Xanax to be the best treatment you will be treated like an addict and your request for certain treatments will be denied.
Doctors also specifically present themselves as authorities and while some will put up "being used as tools" they will resist any approach you ask for which isn't in the treatment flowchart of the medical system already.
Psychiatric medication is typically explained to the patient as follows "take these pills and you'll feel better". They never warn about side effects or explain it only lowers certain metrics.
You can insist upon certain things to a certain extent, but once you don't follow the internal logic of the psych system you are kicked out.

>>308010
Most anyone in anyone industry is retarded, and I was speaking less about medication I don't think medication is really a valuable treatment it's not even intended to "fix" anything it's merely to reduce symptoms.
But what you said applies to every procedural bureaucratic system. Academia, medicine in general, basically everything nowadays.
You just have to accept it's basically retarded as a system, the people in it are brainwashed, however that doesn't mean you can't extract value from it.
You obviously can't say it outright but yeah you do basically have to recognize these people will harm you if it's convenient so you have to be careful around them and just make sure you are being careful you are benefiting and not being harmed.

The system as a whole I would say is bad, but it still produces some valuable stuff and it's for many things the best we can do now anyway. People need to be able to engage with these sort of tyrannical systems without conforming to them. You choose to use the tool when it's good for you, you don't allow the tool to reshape you. The tool will try to reshape you if you let it.

>>307334
>>307307
you might be right, but it's important not to focus on external locus of control

I think some people are just born to be designated losers, NPCs, whatever. We lost the roll of the dice, brother.

>>308060
Literally there's nothing more to it. Even if you belive in free will or determinism. It doesn't matter anymore cause your birth place, birth date, traits, circumstances, how your brain mixture is going to be is already pre-written so you are bound to head a certain direction and become something you can't control. This is it really, God does play die.

>>308060
>"All the world's a stage, And all the men and succubi merely players; They have their exits and their entrances; And one man in his time plays many parts"

I feel people like Chris Chan are actually some of the most beloved people on earth, specifically because people can gawk at them and feel better. Losers are loved in a sense, and people want them around to feel better about themselves. And sometimes the most successful people are the most despised. There's actual hate in my mother's voice when she gets going about Elon, I don't know why she cares to hate him. I guess it's because he achieves shit, idk. But I've never really heard of anyone actually hating Chris Chan. Whenever he's talked about there's loving fascination.

>>307348
eat shit

>>307439
That sounds lonely, but I feel you're not actually finding comfort in that solitude of yours. I do not know what is causing you discomfort, I feel you wanna talk to someone, connect a bit. Do you?

>>307542
Yes, I absolutely see zero reason to stay in this place.
I feel like my body is a parasite leeching off the real me trying to trick me into keeping it alive.
I think there is an afterlife, but if there's nothing this bullshit is over too, either way suicide is win-win.

>>307546
come on man, don't say foolishness.
suffering is great it gives to life a fine taste.

>>307439
how are you now, wizzie? :(

>>307539
I don't think so, there's a very clear difference from the normie-ingroup and the outcasts, wizards and neets.

>>307962
im not rly trying to avocate improvement

i also don't think wallowing or self-destruction is the way either

maybe somewhere in between?

… acceptance and peace?

cus i'm with you, fuck trying to improve this; there is a limit and I can feel the threshold. I see it with my own eyes and know it within myself. It's no use.

I suggest abandoning all outdated neurotypical notions of happiness and redefine your own system from within. It's not gonna be the succubus or rising through corporate ladders and getting a nice car and house that does it for you. What even is "it" that you're so miserable about not having/doing/experiencing/feeling?

accept your sentence in this conscious existence. Maybe you're a loser and isolated in the old world you failed at. you failed and didn't you give up???
why are you still using the old system of measuring human success and worthiness and feeling bad about it?

I am getting sick and tired of my self pity.

>>307967
>acting as 13 years old succ
try to meditate

>>307519
>tism schizoid CPTSD suspected by some psychs, didnt stick around for a full diagnosis
>probably adhd
>severe tinnitus
>tendonitis in both hands, fingers, carpal tunnel, "tennis elbow"
>herniated discs in neck, thoracic spine and lumbar spine
>polyneuropathy as a result with frequent numbness
>eczema
>teeth fucked
>gastritis, ibs, hemorrhoids
>mystery liver pain, probably fat-fuck-syndrome

Only at level 30 so far. Wish I could slowly come to terms with the end like >>307521 mentions buddhism, but time and deaths closeness just drives my anxiety further.

I'll be honest and say one of the worst aspects of this is that there isn't anyone I can consider a nemesis or evildoer to avenge my lot or something.
Nobody to hate, can't even hate myself really. I consider myself a victim obviously, however lame and loserlike that is. Well I'm a loser so hey… it's in character.

Really though? I was already set on this path by the time I had any real "free will" or even cognition.
Ironically my first 4 memories are in order (all at age 2-3), me drowning, grandma dying, starving at home alone because my father wouldn't feed me and getting the shit beat out of me.
Further formative experiences ensued of course.
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>307967
>There is always an option to improve your situation, things getting so bad it is beyond repair does not happen. All these wizards on /dep/ have the wrong idea and I must inform them.
I can not say I appreciate your honesty. I wish mods would just ban or at least warn posters like this.

im 29 and have been a lifelong chronically ill weakling. it's only gotten worse with time. the worst part is in theory i should be healthy chad, i was born to 2 attractive normies in their late teens. i just got bad rng

>>307899
Yes. I've found that beer just makes me fall asleep before I even get drunk. I start getting a little buzz and then boom, asleep. Like browsing here I just keep doing it in vain out of habit. It's really over now, isn't it?

>>307894
here we go again
>>307901
this & that

>be mimikyu
>subhuman pokemon that is desperate to be loved but kills everything on sight because how ugly it is
>puts on pikachad costume to be loved but fails because he's still subhuman and retarded

>be pikachad
>chosen as protagonist's main pokemon and mascot because of its looks
>gain plot armor because of said advantages and beats legendaries with ease
>everyone loves pikachad and he probably sleeps with multiple pikastacies and fucked up human stacies too probably

BRUTAL MIMIKYUPILL.

I dont struggle with alcohol, its the only time I truly enjoy moments in life. its my only friend

>>307899
yeah, i started at 16 and got bored of it once i actually hit 21. i sporadically go on benders here and there though

>>308021
Neither am I a troll. I’m just a crabibate man. My patience for succubi has been slowly dwindling. I’ve already given up, but I still desire more, not because I want approval from normies.

>>308017
I don’t use discord.

>>308038
Lol… sorry, stupid typo.

>>308040
you called yourself an involuntary celibate tho

>>308023
easiest way to do it is with a "helium exit bag" helium while remove all the oxygen from your blood but it wont feel like youre out of breath, its a peaceful quick death

>>308026
is becoming a cowboy with a tragic backstory THE cure for depression?

>>308028
yep. loot and shoot, we were born that way, but society had no place for people like that so it crippled us and now we just live out our days dreaming about a colt and whatnot

> I failed to get a girlfriend.I can't find work anywhere.

Who cares? These are both self-imposed metrics of success that bear no relation to real worth or happiness.

>>308027
How do you know it's the easiest? Did you try it?

>>307980
Having worked in soulless corporate offices it's definitely a thing I'd say. But I think it's also heavily related to general feelings of being trapped, of your life passing you by or that you are wasting your time. Those certainly exacerbate it. If you have quiet spaces or better, nature somewhere in your surroundings you need to go for walks. Or just sit outside sometimes. Recently I've gotten great relief from just expanding my field of view by sitting outside. Looking into the distance, having the sky far above me, no walls that close me in. I think it's a simple animal reality that we are not made to sit statically in one spot and stare at a fixed distance while being enclosed on all sides. Animals are the same way too and we aren't much more than that.

>>308022
Went for a few walks recently and as you say just looking at more distant landscapes, woods etc. felt unreasonably pleasurable.
Unfortunately I've yet to find a nice path/space where I could chill outside.
Live in the poverty area, edge of town too filled with the kind of people you might imagine.
Despite the hostile environment it still felt pretty good I'd say worth pursuing for anyone with limited space.
Wish I had a backyard.

>>308020
beaware, it may starts as a joke but people will quickly take it seriously when many will acknowledge it

>>308020
It's not about being bored really.
I'm fine with sitting at my desk, my computer has been my whole world for 20-22 years now.
The issue is that some actions need to be taken if I wish to improve my lot which seem fairly trivial in the grand scheme of things.
Regardless having such limited range/space makes things difficult as some thoughts/plans you can't translate to reality.

A simple example would be needing certain exercises for improving ones posture, back, something like that.
You lack the space (to even lie down fully) so, since the option isn't realistic, your mind just dismisses the thought of exercise completely.
It is of course not impossible, jumping through some extra hoops would surely make it an option, but a much less desirable one than doing some simple stuff at home.

I do agree with the jest in part. Naming things, diagnosing things is fruitless. I should have tried to phrase/approach the topic of limited living spaces in a way that fosters discussion.

>>308030
i was just joking with myself. i don't really disagree with what you said, neither do i really dismiss it or anything like that.

>>307731
Depressingly true.
I used to have online friends when I was a fun clown in MMOs and later when I was hardcore high rank in a moba…
Never since.
Though to be fair I never looked for them outright either or asked to join or whatever.
>dry up like plants and die off.
Unfortunately. If you have a multiyear or decade long lay-down-and-rot episode you are just stuck alone forever.

>>307949
>Unfortunately. If you have a multiyear or decade long lay-down-and-rot episode you are just stuck alone forever.

No social obligations, no letting people down, no emotional stress from others, a lot cheaper without stuff like dinners and events, no helping people move, maximum free time for hobbies, interests, etc.

so it's not necessarily "unfortunately", but it is true… very hard to recover from looooong breaks of many things

somethings come back like riding a bike…

others truly atrophy and die.

or you just give up and don't try anymore so it might as well be dead…just slowly rotting

>Though to be fair I never looked for them outright

Were you just not motivated? Or was something holding you back

>>307958
That all sounds nice, but I was killing myself mentally.
Stress and neglect combined ruined my health for good in many ways.
>or you just give up and don't try anymore so it might as well be dead…just slowly rotting
Pretty much. At some point I just surrendered. I truly tried to do a lot of things, maybe it's some mental problem, but I could just never act on anything that wasn't directly stimulating.
At some point even those lost any appeal.

>others truly atrophy and die.
Indeed, to the point where I developed panic attacks whenever I'm around people or even talk to them over voice calls lately.
I can't even control it. It's very weird.

>Were you just not motivated? Or was something holding you back
Much was lost as you say. I lost interest in most if not all things and without caring about anything, what do you even talk about with people?
I asked an anon this above >>307748 and the response was as expected… they don't have much to talk about with people either.
What would I even do if I had friends? I can't tell you.

I was motivated for a bit.
I tried to reignite a passion for yugioh (childhood love) spent a good chunk of time going to local gatherings, but it didn't work out.
I couldn't connect to people at all aside from the somewhat forced interactions due to the nature of the engagement/game.
The panic attacks got worse too, but I forced it for almost a year.
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>307723
>Very late 20s. Never been on a date, never been approached. Never had any friends, only acquaintances
All that plus, never had a job, never had any respect, never had any friends either to confide to like you and the ones that I did have never really talked to me after school/college etc. I just wish everyday that I go and sleep that this sleep should be my last.
>>307729
>we're fundamentally victims of poverty, not of money or resources, but experiences. if you don't have the right experiences by a certain age, it's over
completely agree with that except I am actually a victim of being short on money and resources as well
>even if someone gave me friends and a gf on a silver plater, i wouldn't know what to do with them, i would feel nothing
This is where I would partially disagree with you, while it's true that it would be hard to navigate a situation like this, I doubt that people can truly accept and find solace without having someone, hate to say it, but I think all of us hooomans are wired the same way, even introverts, and recluses. That to some degree, their biology, their heart, and mind require someone to be with them for companionship.

>>307958
>maximum free time for hobbies, interests, etc.
Unless you're a programmer, you are basically stuck reading books and watching anime if you wish to avoid social obligations, letting people down and emotional stress from others.

>>307654
You ask and this slavnigger delivers.
Thanks to these i've been feeling alive for the last 5 month. Pardon the formating, I asked gemini to translate it.

Supplement 1
Vitamin C (L-ascorbic acid)
Zinc citrate
Vitamin D (cholecalciferol)
Elderflower extract (Sambucus nigra)

Supplement 2
Vitamin C (L-ascorbic acid)
Nicotinamide (Vitamin B3/PP)
DL-alpha-tocopheryl acetate (Vitamin E)
D-pantothenate calcium (Vitamin B5)
Pyridoxine hydrochloride (Vitamin B6)
Riboflavin (Vitamin B2)
Thiamine mononitrate (Vitamin B1)
Pteroylmonoglutamic acid (Folic acid)
D-biotin
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>307661
ultra based supplement bro

>>303176
I've been thinking about buying some of that

>>303176
I wish it were that easy:
> Light skin
> All year round summer hot place
> take Fish Oil and Vit D + K supplements everyday.
> plus other 12 or so supplements more

Still miserable.

Creatine Monohydrate should be supplemented because to get a full working dose one would need to eat an entire chicken dinner's worth of beef. It's vital in the human body's functions that relate to not being unhealthy. I've been taking it for years and I'm very strong and smart and large.

>>307661
That seems like a lot to take in but many men's health support supplements cover much of that in two doses. Ideally much of this shouldn't be supplemented but rather acquired through an actual balanced diet, but that would probably give a caloric surplus for the average NEET.